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Discussion Starter #1
This tread may confirm my moniker, but so be it.

I have two German Shepherd dogs, both three years old, one an intact female and one an intact male. My question relates to marking (ie urinating) in the male.

I have noticed in the past that the male would mark on top of the female’s urine. I assumed this related to marking territory, letting other dogs know the female was spoken for and so on.

The relationship between the female and male is a little odd, although I’m told this isn’t unusual. The female seems to push the male around, although he really lets it happen. He rarely stands up to her, although I’m sure he easily could. Nevertheless, when she comes into heat, she stands for him without any contest. She really acts like the ***** she is.

That said, the dogs are both, and without any question submissive to me. This submission is to the point that many people have commented on the fact that the dogs really know that I’m the boss and also on how well they obey me. Their manner and stature is completely submissive when they approach me.

I have recently noticed that the male will attempt to mark on top of MY scent. I have been known to occasionally (well, maybe a bit more then that) pee outside. I have recently noticed that the male pays a great deal of attention to the location, and will immediately move to the spot and mark on top of it if I don’t stop him from doing so, and he thinks I’m not paying attention.

I do not permit him to do this, and when I stop him, he immediately adopts a submissive pose. The last time when I yelled at him, he dropped to the ground and actually rolled onto his back as I approached. Is this a sign of testing dominance, or just the sign of a bored male GS? Am I correct in thinking he shouldn’t be marking on top of the Alpha’s urine or not?

Help me out with translating dog language if you can.

Pete
 

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Lots of animals will mark the same spot. Its like leaving a note that says "I was here too" My Bloodhound does it all the time.
And as long as it's not ON you I see no reason to stop him LOL
 

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As far as the dog submitting to the *****- that is typical. Bitches are actually pack leaders. Males are the hunters. I see bitches fighting for dominance with each other much more than males. With males it hits as their hormones kick in, but is usually over quickly- always by 3 yo- unless the owner has prevented them from settling it. With bitches it lasts longer but is usually an off and on type thing instead of constant- and then will come up again as the older dominant ***** is slowing down (maybe not even enough for us to notice).

I am not sure why you are concerned with the male marking over your scent. I could maybe understand it if you were having agression issues with him- but still - I doubt a male dog or wolf would get on another male in his pack for peeing were he did- he would simply mark over it again. Even when I have had males who were trying to establish dominance with each other, I have not seen them fight over someone marking over---they would just each try to be the last to pee there. I have also seen males peeing right where a ***** is squating- during the act. I do get on my boys for that as they have been known to miss the ground and pee on her. But if they do it after the fact- I could care less and she feels the same. Dominant bitches are also known to mark thier territory too. A really dominant ***** may got over and pee back in the spot again after a male has and then scratch the ground- but it will not turn into a - forgive the pun- a ----ing contest.
Personally, I do not like a dog to be so submissive that they roll on thier back or assume a completely submissive posture when I approach or reprimand. I do expect a subbmissive posture when I reprimand- but not to the extent that they are showing thier belly. That is a sign that you have reprimanded too harshly IMO.
 

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Bearfootfarm said:
Lots of animals will mark the same spot. Its like leaving a note that says "I was here too" My Bloodhound does it all the time.
And as long as it's not ON you I see no reason to stop him LOL
You just reminded me of my 2 yo boy who did exactly that to me---peed right on my shoes. He got reprimanded and I was glad my boys didn;t see it, as they would have laughed and the message might not have been taken seriously by the dog.
 

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I think the dog is marking you as being under his protection. "This is my Masters sent, You mess with him and you will have to mess with me to" type thing.
 

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Yup, Goldie our dog does that with Roger all the time. Roger "goes" and Goldie follows.

I don't do that outside, so I don't know if he would with me.
 

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Ardie/WI said:
Yup, Goldie our dog does that with Roger all the time. Roger "goes" and Goldie follows.

I don't do that outside, so I don't know if he would with me.
WEll, I do, and Connor will mark over mine--

Many years ago, I had a male Irish Setter that would always mark me when we got to a show site-- never any place else-- get out of the car, mark mom, let's hit the ring, Mom!!!

If you male is using a LOT of urine to mark over yours, then there is some dominance issue-- but if it is just a few drops-- a 'note' so to speak, no big deal.
 

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My female dogs do the same thing. (uh, yeah, sometimes I pee outdoors too, isn't that part of the reason we all love living in the country? :p ) I honestly don't think it has anything to do with dominance. Especially if the dog in question is submissive to you and doesn't question your authority.

Dogs pee where other dogs (and sometimes people) pee because I think it confirms their identity. The neighborhood post is like a community message board. "Let's see who's been here... hmmm... there's Buster... there's Fifi... hm, oh, that's a new dog in the neighborhood... well now I'll let everyone know I'm here too!" It's not really dominance, but rather a measure of confidence. If a dog is feeling secure in himself and his surroundings, he won't mind others knowing he's around and what he's all about.

Of course, a dominant dog will be more thorough and vigorous in his marking behavior.

A friend of mine had an intact pitbull mix named Odis. He was a confident, non-aggressive alpha male who loved to lift his leg on things. Several times I saw other dogs act aggressively toward him, to which he would simply turn the other cheek, lift his leg on the nearest object over three inches high, and then go about his business. The other dog would sniff, and then leave Odis alone. Odis was obviously communicating something.

Sometimes dogs will mark to reassure themselves. Though confident and sometimes headstrong, Odis was submissive to his owner. One time when we were camping, he was being a pest, and his owner told him a couple times to go lie down. He did, but then kept getting back up. Finally his owner grabbed him by the scruff and gave him a stern correction. Odis, with a sulky expression, slunk over to a tree, lifted his leg, and then went and lied down with a heavy sigh.

I couldn't help laughing... reminded me of a 5 year old kid. :)
 

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Rogo said:
The dog is taking back its territory.
This is what I was worried about. It's not his territory, it's mine.

Everything I've read about dog training tells me I have to be the Alpha Male. I bet in a wolf pack another dog wouldn't think of marking on top of the Alpha Male's scent.

Then again, most of what I've read about dog training contradicts everything else I've read of dog training, so I conclude no one knows anything, but they all think they know everything.

I think I'll continue to forbid him from marking on my scent. I can't see a downside to this response. On the other hand, if it is a dominance issue, letting him get away with it could lead to big problems.

Pete
 

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RedneckPete said:
This is what I was worried about. It's not his territory, it's mine.

Everything I've read about dog training tells me I have to be the Alpha Male. I bet in a wolf pack another dog wouldn't think of marking on top of the Alpha Male's scent.

Then again, most of what I've read about dog training contradicts everything else I've read of dog training, so I conclude no one knows anything, but they all think they know everything.

I think I'll continue to forbid him from marking on my scent. I can't see a downside to this response. On the other hand, if it is a dominance issue, letting him get away with it could lead to big problems.

Pete
You do not have to be the alpha male, you are not a dog and your dog is not a human. He knows the difference.
He is reacting to the smell of urine.
 

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RedneckPete said:
I think I'll continue to forbid him from marking on my scent. I can't see a downside to this response. On the other hand, if it is a dominance issue, letting him get away with it could lead to big problems.

Pete
If you want to do that, he might think he's not supposed to pee in front of you, so take care to praise him whenever he pees in an appropriate spot. Again, if this dog is submissive to the point of rolling over when reprimanded, I don't think you have any dominance issue here... in fact, you might want to go a little easier on him.
 

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My interpretation of it is that in a pack the leader desides where the territory is...Therefore he is the first to lay down his mark and the others back his play.

My female AB pushes my male around, but every so often he'll have enough and put her in her place...When that time comes, she doesn't even attempt to square off against him, she backs down quick.
 

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You do not have to be the alpha male, you are not a dog and your dog is not a human. He knows the difference.
He is reacting to the smell of urine.
I have to agree with pancho on this one. If people stopped trying to be dogs and become part of their pack there would be a lot less screwed up dogs in the world. Then there is the other extreme where people think their dogs are little people and treat them like people. Dogs are dogs and people are people. Things work out a lot better when you have a human-dog relationship and keep it at that.
 

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Redneck Pete,

My blue lacy marks where I pee and so do my fiancee's other dogs. It's just their way of saying, "We're part of the pack and get lost!" to other dogs. Nothing insidious or stupid or alpha about it.
 

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Hubby pees outdoors and our male dogs pee over it. No biggie. Now, the time a dog ran up and stuck his cold wet nose to my hinny when I was taking a leak? BIGGIE! He made me jump and I peed down my pants leg.
 

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Oy vey, Ravenlost!

To the OP, it isn't anything about being alpha or not. It is dog being a dog!

Don't confuse the animal by disciplining him for doing something that is natural to a dog.
 

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Wolf Flower said:
My female dogs do the same thing. (uh, yeah, sometimes I pee outdoors too, isn't that part of the reason we all love living in the country? :p )
Refreshing to me to see some open minded ladies here. Most ladies I've run into (especially in recent years) would rather go several hundred feet to the house instead of just "communing with nature."

Lew
 

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lewbest said:
Refreshing to me to see some open minded ladies here. Most ladies I've run into (especially in recent years) would rather go several hundred feet to the house instead of just "communing with nature."
Haha... I thought of it more as laziness than openmindedness. Why walk several hundred feet when I can just pee right here?

If you're wearing a skirt, you can get away with doing it all kinds of places. :eek:
 

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Wolf Flower said:
Haha... I thought of it more as laziness than openmindedness. Why walk several hundred feet when I can just pee right here?

If you're wearing a skirt, you can get away with doing it all kinds of places. :eek:
My thoughts exactly!

Lew
 
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