My goat breeding frustrations!

Discussion in 'Goats' started by wardarden, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. wardarden

    wardarden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Hey guys,

    I am a rookie at everything new this year with my goats! Now it is breeding season and I am lost again. :shrug: Aaarrggg! When I first married my husband he had a Stud horse that he stood and we bred mares for several years. I have decided that breeding horses is much easier that breeding goats! I can't tell what these silly does are doing! :confused: I have compiled a Goat Breeding Diary to try and keep track of what is happening. It is posted below, sorry if it is long but I am open for any suggestions. . . . . .

    Saturday Sept 16th
    Drove 2 hours one way to pick up buck (Chad) and arrived back at our place late Saturday afternoon. I have this buck loaned to me for about 3 weeks. Turned him out with 2 does (Nita is a 4 y.o. Oberhasli doe 3rd freshener – Daisy is Nita’s doeling from last January and ready to breed as well) and he seemed more interested in their hay and pasture than anything. They were mildly curious about him but nothing major. I went out at dark to try and catch him to move him to a separate pen and he eluded my attempts.

    Sunday Sept 17th
    Managed to capture buck this morning during feeding of does and moved him to pen next to does. At advice of owner of buck put him on a 15’ dog cable where he cannot attempt to jump fence. He seemed content to check out his new surrounding and lay out in the sun. I had to get my son over to help me build a “cattle panel shelter” since forecast called for rain on Monday. Still not real interest shown by does or buck. I notice they like to go up to him and rare up like they want to butt heads and then run away then come back in a few seconds. What I call being a tease! I actually feel sorry for the buck. The does are not really hanging around the fence between the two of them or crying, but these are Oberhasli does and I think they are VERY quiet. So everything I have read about being able to detect heat in does is not working for me so far!

    Monday Sept 18th
    Let does in with buck for a little while this morning and they showed no interest in him other than to walk up to him and then run away if he showed any interest. Monday evening opened gate and let does go visit with Chad. Once again Nita is more interested in his grain than anything. When he tried to tease Nita she would run away and then come back around a few seconds later seemed like she may be flagging her tail a little. I held Nita still to try and let Chad tease her. As he was paying attention to her backside I noticed she arched her back a little and flagged her tail but she did squirm and try to evade his attention. I let her go and she ran off about. Husband and I thought maybe she was coming in. We left the does in with Chad while we went in the house for supper. Right after supper I started feeling really sick at my stomach and did not make it back out to shut does back on their side of pen. Husband closed them back when he got up at 4:00 am Tuesday morning.

    Tuesday Sept 19th
    I stayed home from work today with a bad stomach virus. Went out this morning to feed the goats. Nita seemed to be “flagging” her tail when I petted her on the milk stand. Her milk production seemed to be up. Got 2 qts. instead of the average 1 qt. (Daisy doeling still nurses free choice). After feeding goats I turned Nita & Daisy in with buck to observe. Nita as usual was more interested to see if Chad left any feed. Chad on the other hand seemed very interested in Nita. As she had her head down in his feed bucket I observed him mount her and penetrate but only for maybe 1 second. At which point she took off running back to her barn. About mid-day I went out and turned the does back in with the buck and this time unhooked Chad from the dog lead. He proceeded to chase Nita around the pen, made her trip and fall at one point (I felt bad about that) and did manage to mount her for maybe 1 second again. No willingness on the part of Nita to be bred. I turned her and Daisy doeling back into their pen.


    Wednesday Sept 20th
    This morning when I went to feed I got Nita up on the milk stand and noticed that her tail was kind of crusty. When I lifted her tail she had some milky looking discharge and her vulva was swollen and reddish. I got a baby wipe and cleaned her up a bit which made her dance around on the milk stand. She can’t stand to have me mess with her back end or tail! After milking and feeding I opened the gate between Nita, Daisy & the buck Chad. Nita walked up to his shelter and stuck her nose in his feed bucket to see if he had left any feed. He started teasing her and she ran away! I went and held her by the collar (getting frustrated by now) and lead her back to Chad. I tried to hold her still while he teased her and she was dancing around trying to avoid his attentions. He managed to mount her but only for second as she kept squirming. Frustrated I have left the gate open between the doe pen and the buck pen today. Chad is on his lead and the girls can go visit with him if they see fit. I understand that this is not the ideal situation that professional breeders use but I have quickly found out that I do not know enough about breeding goats! Daisy the 9 month old doeling just goes up to him and acts like she wants to butt heads and then runs away. Nita just wants to see if he left her any feed and I don’t know if I am going to have any kids this spring or not! Shouldn’t it be easier than this!

    Thank you!!

    Arden in Murfreesboro TN
     
  2. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    If you are willing to have all your does bred as it sounds like you are, I would allow him to run with your does for the next three weeks. Keep a close eye on actions and tails and you *should* be able to tell when they have been bred. Even if not, you will only have a three week window for them to freshen in, which is not bad at all. Detecting heats can be hard for new goat owners and allowing the buck to run with the does is also a good way to get "shy does" over their squeamishness about being bred. Some just have to be persuaded and that is easier for the buck to do if he is running with the herd. Anyway.....that is what I would do, as it does not sound like he is aggressive with the girls.
     

  3. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    CO
    I agree, I would let the Buck go. The girls will not let him get close until they are ready, and if he shows no intrest in the girls, then you can sure bet they are not in heat. IThe buck will do some pretty funny intertaining things if the girls are in heat. That is the bucks way of getting the girls attention, and showing off. Just to let you know it only takes a second for the buck to breed the doe. One time I saw a buck get on a girl that I didn't want bred, (he got out and I was putting him back) he was on her for no more then about 3 seconds. I thought ok, not enough time. OOPS, I was wrong. she did have a beautiful baby. Be patient, it will happen. More then likely while you have your back turned. Once she is bred, then she will more then likely not let him around again.
     
  4. wardarden

    wardarden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    So if they are ready to be bred will they go up to him? I hate to take him off of the 15' dog cable cause when I brought him home on Sunday he wanted to hang out in my does barn and it is split, 1 side for milking and one side for goats (only about 10' x 20' total) but I can still smell where he was in there on Sunday. He is REALLY SMELLY! Sorry to be such a duffus about this and thanks guys!
     
  5. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

    Messages:
    2,023
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    CO
    My girls are right next to my boys, just a 7' fence between them. When the girls are in heat they go and rub their butts on the fence at the boys. :nono: They are so mean.
     
  6. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,177
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Location:
    NY
    Being her tail was "messy" I would say he bred her. It is done and over really in a few seconds. Boy I am glad I am not a goat.

    I to would let them just run together. Block off the barn during the day if you don't want him in there.

    Patty
     
  7. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    Yep, that is what I would do. I have 9 breeding bucks and they are very smelly too. You get used to it. :)
    Having him on a line will not be very good if your does are the type that the buck needs to "catch" and it can be dangerous for buck and doe when he gets excited.
     
  8. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    4,629
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    This year I tried putting the does in with the buck just for a day and overnight, then removing them. A week or so later, all the does came in heat, and I put them back to breed.

    I suggested this to my friend who borrowed the buck, and it worked for her, too. Since yours have already been introduced to the buck, whichever ones haven't come into heat (sounds like "Nita" did) should come into heat within a week to ten days of the buck's arrival. Just my guess.
    (Mine are Nubians.)

    mary
     
  9. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

    Messages:
    1,198
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Location:
    Lexington Texas area
    It sounds to me like "Nita" is bred. Write that down on your calendar. If she doesn't come back into heat in 18-21 days, she is pregnant. It only takes a buck a second or two to do the deed. Some does are hussies and like the attention of the buck, some run away screaming despite being in full fledged heat. Leave the buck in there with the does if you have him for a limited time to make sure they get bred if you are having a hard time with this. i don't like the idea of tethering a goat for any reason because a goat can get injured.

    I had two young ones last year that I was sure were not bred. I put them with the buck and they ran away from him and he jumped on them a few times but it did not even look at if he was able to penetrate. I was very frustrated and was sure nothing happened. They both had kids.
     
  10. AnnaS

    AnnaS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,130
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Location:
    Verndale MN
    Sounds like your does aren't in heat yet. They should come in a few days- 3 to 7- depending on where their heat cycles where before the buck came.

    The does WILL let you and the buck know when they are in heat! They turn into hussies like you will not believe. Pushing their behinds in the buck's face, rubbing on him, non-stop tail wagging, crying, trying to climb in the buck pen, refusing to leave the buck pen for anything etc etc. You won't miss it.
     
  11. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    Probably, but not always. I have a couple does that come into totally silent heat. They don't even hang out near the buck pen. Nothing at all, then I let the buck out and Whammy!! :rolleyes:
     
  12. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

    Messages:
    8,818
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    S.E.Alabama
    put them all togather and leave them that way, they will sort it out, goats are not like Horses where you can controle who breeds who and when, alot of goat breeding happens at night when no one is looking

    but it does sound like the one doe is bred already, when they start showing nasty tails and discharge and swolen vulva like that its a good indicator that he did his job, but still leave her in with him just in case she cycles again

    the other doe should come in soon if she is ready
     
  13. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    Well, I handbreed all mine and the bucks never run with the does so I *do* know who sired whom and when they are due....... :)
     
  14. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

    Messages:
    8,818
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    S.E.Alabama
    i didnt mean that the sire is questionable lol, i just ment more along the lines of when the actuall deed was done, i always knew who had been with the buck the night before when the next morning they were all messy, and dripping

    by yes i let my buck run with the does when i wanted everyone bred,
     
  15. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    Ah. :)
     
  16. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

    Messages:
    8,818
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    S.E.Alabama
    but of corse i had mainely a meat herd, i didnt have a milking string so it didnt really matter if they were with the buck 24/7 during breeding season, actually i left the adult buck with the doe herd alot more than most, simply because it worked easyer that way, i kept the bucklings castrated and didnt have any doelings bred to early,

    the only time i separated the Buck was when my big Boer tore up the fences too much and i had to pen him separate to keep the rest of my goats in
     
  17. wardarden

    wardarden Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    99
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Hey Guys,

    I took some pictures today of my does and the buck. One picture is of her "privates" so if you are offended, I'm sorry in advance. Just trying to get other people who know more than me (which is not difficult!) to see what I am trying to say and offer opinions. Click on the link below to go to the page with pictures. Thank You!

    http://home.comcast.net/~epona1/GoatBreeding/index.html
     
  18. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    That picture looks *very* much like he got her. :) That is exactly what my bred does look like a day or so after they have been serviced.
     
  19. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,680
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
    That is so cute, you are worried the pix will offend...

    I have spent more time looking at my goats' butts, vulvas, udders, poop, and pee than I would have ever dreamed a little over a year ago. I really didn't picture that aspect of goatkeeping when it was still a dream.
     
  20. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

    Messages:
    8,818
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Location:
    S.E.Alabama
    yep i would say he did his job at least once or twice, and as long as she settles correctly you will have kids in a few months, other wise she may cycle again but thats not often the case with a good buck,

    also he looks like a very capable buck, he is a little short in length but thats not bad, do you know what his mother and sisters are known to produces milk wise?

    your doeling looks like she is big enough to be bred soon, sence she is not a milker i would leave her in with him all the time, you can take the adult doe out and but let her have access to the fence line where she wont be lonely, that way she can be milked easily and you wont have to worry about moveing her back and forth, also if she does cycle again you can just put her back in with the buck no problem, but give the doelilng every possible chance to be bred and dont leave him on the cable, if he has company in his pen he will stay put