Mustard for car fuel??

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Ann Mary, May 3, 2005.

  1. Ann Mary

    Ann Mary Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I just read in a magazine where a lady grows mustard and turns it into fuel for her car. She just mentioned this in passing. Has anyone else heard or know about this process?
     
  2. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    About the only way that would work is via methan gas, the byproduct of the mustard rotting; there would have to be a digester chamber and catchment system. Yes, it has been done before, I recall many years back about an Australian pig farmer useing the waste to power his operation.
     

  3. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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  4. Blu3duk

    Blu3duk Well-Known Member

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    Both mitch and paul could be correct, the seed could be harvested and pressed into oil to be used as "bio-diesel" and mustard plants will produce an awesome amount of seed in the right conditions.... and yes there are better crops.

    Bio mass fuel is not a new idea either, Henry Ford was gonna make a vehicle he called the Ford Hempmobile in 1941 and as the webpage shows quite an industrious undertaking, it would have upset the oil cart, which was likely the reasoning behind making a myriad of laws outlawing the growing of hemps cousine marijauna, and attaching Industrial hemp along with it about that time.

    Alternative fuels still are not the sole answer to solving the fuel prices rocketing outside of the realm of reality, but they can go along way in making some peoples lives easier to live. Retruning to the gold standard would go a long way in stabilizing the US economy and thus would reduce the price of fuel as people actually would know what it was worth as opposed to the fiat futures paper used to pay for it currently...... sorry for being over most folks heads.

    William
     
  5. Ann Mary

    Ann Mary Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks everyone...I was wondering if it was something like that. Seems like alot of mustard would have to be grown in order to distill the parts of it that are used. Maybe someone else out there is doing it??? Diesel came down to $2.39 a gallon yesterday ...finally! It was $2.50 not too long ago.
     
  6. Don Armstrong

    Don Armstrong In Remembrance

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    Mustard is a relative of canola. So much so that they're working on strains of mustard which are more drought-resistant than canola, but can be sold to oil-seed processors as canola. Once you've got the oil, bio-diesel is a possibility.
     
  7. frugalville

    frugalville Well-Known Member

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    Price inflation in all things occur from 2 events.. supply and demand, and the value of money. Since FDR and then Nixon, the US dollar is backed only by "the full faith and credit of the US Govt."- translation.. we say it's valuable, and we have lots of guns and weapons. A dollar does not represent value, it represents debt.

    Our downfall as a currency stems from the inability of govt's to fund wars. The economies run fine until a large amount of money is needed to pay for warfare... how do we do it.. The govt turns on the printing presses and just prints up what money it needs... dilluting you purchasing power. (this last little Iraq excursion is 300 billion and running.)

    Fuel prices are going to continue to rise... Middle-eastern countries are starting to demand more dollars cause the govt. is printing them like mad and they are losing value. There are bubbles in everything... so much money sloshing around in the system.

    William is right. This country desperately needs a stable currency. In the past it was tied to gold, and couldn't be expanded unless more gold was bought. FDR took it all... Nixon closed the gold window and the currency has been on fire..

    Every fiat currency eventually reaches it's commodity value. In the case of the paper dollar, about 2 cents a bill. Let me repeat this.. in the history of every know civilization with a fiat currency, they have all eventually failed.



    Hubert's peak

    http://www.peace.ca/oilprices.htm

    Alternative fuel sources today consume more energy than they produce. Eventually oil costs will be so high, it will make alternative sources price competitive. As a planet we are increasing oil consumption at a rate of 7% a year. If the entire earth was made of oil, at that consumption rate we would only have enought for 300 years...

    Add 1.3 billion people from China and India wanting their own cars, modern agriculture, modern power grid.. oil is going to continue to get more expensive. Eventually, a new power source will be found, and it will set off another economic boom as new cars and factories and powerstations will all switch...Experts say LPG is next in hubert's peak.. but nuclear is dirt cheap.

    or we won't ....

    Just learn to penny pinch elsewhere or use less fuel, as more income will be devoted to fuel costs. The US has enjoyed the cheapest gas prices in the world... supply and demand ..time to pay the piper.

    Paul Volker where are you ?
     
  8. MikeD

    MikeD Well-Known Member

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    Wow William ! I have to admit, you totally surprised me in referring to fiats and gold standards over here. I've been fighting a mortgage servicing fraud case for a few years now which has allowed me to do some research in which I got a rudimentary education in fiats, gold, etc. Google "Fairbanks Capital" if you have any interest in what I've been up against.
     
  9. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with much of what you had to say, or at least find good info from it.

    Save that one line up above. Ethanol produces more energy than it uses. I sure hope you won't reference that faulty 'study' where the sunlight used to grow the corn was counted - or other studies over 5 years old.... Ethanol plants (and farming as well, from planting the seed through harvest) continue to increase efficiency & output, and produce about 1/3 more energy than they consume today. That efficiency continues to improve, and will be even better in another 5 years.

    As well, bio-diesel from soy oil looks to be equally good at producing more energy than is consumed in total production.

    Electricity from windmills has an expensive start-up cost & very, very long pay-off period. If we discover better battery storage (longer lasting, lighter, less fragile, something!), that would also be a positive alternative source. Today, replacing the batteries & their inefficencies makes it a bit of a negative overall deal, but they are close for short commuter driving.

    A small quibble to your other good comments, but I feel it is an important to point out several alternative fuels are already producing more energy than they consume, others are pretty close for infant technologies.

    --->Paul
     
  10. raymilosh

    raymilosh Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff here.
    The seeds of plants in the mustard do produce a lot of oil. My next door neighbor Doug (an organic farmer) is growing mustards and some south African varieties of mustards (I think) near to the biodiesel refinery here in chatham county, NC to see if it is a viable source of oil. Vegetable oil can be converted to biodiesel or it can be burned in a diesel engine as it is, so long as it is warmed first. ( There's a biodiesel/veg oil class being taught at the local college (CCCC) and my friend Patrick just finished adding the necessaries so his car can run on veg oil or diesel or biodiesel and he has been relaying his knowledge to me as it has been coming to him.) The exhaust really does smell like french fries.

    William is right. As demand for oil exceeds the supply of it sometime in the next few years, we will likely realize that there isn't enough money, resources or time left to develop alternatives on the scale we would need them. There isn't enough land on earth to grow crops that could produce enough oil to replace the 2.5 billion gallons of fossilized oil we use every day, but production and use of veg oil to run in diesel engines is viable on a small local scale. So, go ahead and develop alternatives to oil, but prepare for the crash at the same time. Every empire has crashed when it exceeded its resource base. It's just the way things work. But this time it's global. Pretending there won't be a crash is just pretending. Read about peak oil.
    ray
     
  11. jack_c-ville

    jack_c-ville Well-Known Member

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    Frugalville,

    We've had a fiat currency for what, around 70 years now? It's actually worked extremely well. It was during that time that America rose to become the dominant economic superpower in all the world.

    The case against fiat currency and for the gold standard is generally made extremely eloquently with a vast number of facts and compelling ideas. I believed in it for a long time myself. The whole grand thing is marred only by the overall phenomenal performance of the American economy in the real world since the introduction of fiat money. Doh.

    The *very* serious problems that the dollar (and the American economy) are facing right now are the fault of George W. Bush's plainly stated intent of engineering a "weak dollar" (among other factors as well - nothing in all the world has just one cause). His administration voiced this plan clearly and publicly last year. They did this deliberately with very little thought as to what the actual effects would be and without consultation with actual independent experts in the field (as usual).

    We crossed the point of no return last month when President Bush visited the WV location where the SS trust fund's treasury Bills are kept and made a very loud, echoed statement that treasury notes are "worthless IOUs."

    When the President of the United States says that his government is not going to honor it's debts and treasury notes are worthless, that kind of thing has a tendency to create some major ripples. All around the world, foreign governments and major economic players lost faith in the dollar and quietly dumping treasury bills as quickly as possible without causing an overnight plunge (which would lower the value of their remaining T-Bills as there is no market to buy all of them at once). The Euro is fast replacing the dollar as the most powerful and accepted currency in the world.

    In short, the major economic storm that is brewing right now is not the fault of fiat currency per se, but rather the fault of one complete idiot's total mismanagement of it for short-term political purposes. The present circumstance in Washington is unique among all of the administrations of the past century that have taken the helm of the US economy. There has never before been a group of people from either party that had a monopoly of power and placed major policy decisions exclusively in the hands of political advisors, with the final up-or-down resting with a moron who doesn't even know what a fiat currency is.

    FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton all understood economics and they all knew better than to stand up in public and announce that notes issued by the US government are 'worthless IOUs.' The magic of fiat currency only worked so long as the magician said it did. George W. Bush single-handedly ruined the American dollar.

    -Jack
     
  12. frugalville

    frugalville Well-Known Member

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    I love a good discussion.

    As for any agriculture based alternative fuels, one has to remember that our agriculture productivity miracle is based on pertoleum. I think I read it takes 8 barrels of oil to raise 1 acre of corn. Now, if you can get some hand plows and oxen, I can see a chance as a true alternative. But besides nuclear, LPG, wind and solar, everything else is recycled from oil or just an energy transfer meduim. (like hydrogen) Hydrogen uses more energy to break its bonds then it will ever give back as an energy source (at least with today's technology). I love ideas like recycled vegetable oil and methane capture from waste though.

    As to the 'fiat' system arguement that everything is great. Every fiat money system says they work, right up to the point they fail. Fiat destroys savers and rewards spenders. Simple as that. Does a 5 cent coke, now priced at a 1.50 really take any more man power, product, or energy to make today then before. No. It's just that the dollar has been falling in value like a rock.

    Why does everyone need to invest their savings ? With a gold standard, you own a gold piece of currency, put it away for 30 years and come back. It still holds it's value as dollars continue to fall, although gold earns no interest . Why ? Because it's intrinsic value as a commodity or currency will adjust in the marketplace. Now take 1 Us dollar, put it under your matress for 30 years and tell me what it is worth. Practically nothing. The dollar has lost over 90% of its purchasing power. A US dollar or Federal reserve note does not have value, it is a paper promise of someone elses debt. A liability, which makes the holder of the bill be forced to speculate or invest just to maintain purchasing power due to inflation.

    Why is real estate, the stock market, bonds, Us trade deficit, current account deficit, and commodity based items, food, energy all going up every day in dollars? Cause the US govt. wants a free lunch on the backs of its citizens. Fiat was started to pay for wars. Wonder where the term greenbacks comes from ? google it. It was from phony fiat money the US printed up to pay for the civil war. Guess what it's value is today. zero.

    The US as a country has already had 3 fiat currency's that have all failed.It's in the history books. But nobody listens to the lessons of their grandparents. Talk to anybody who lived thru the depression. It will give you and education any school could dream of.

    As if taxes aren't enought, the secret tax, inflation robs everyone daily. As far as Bush and the dollar goes, he must destroy, or rapidly reduce it in value if the US is going to be competitive in the world marketplace. Blame it on China's curreny peg if you like, but the US dollar must fall. Robert Ruben did engineer a strong currency, then globalization and then NAFTA moved our manufacturing to mexico, then free trade with China moved it to Asia, all on the Clinton watch. I could care less about political parties, both are absolutely terrible.

    With 7.6 trillion in public debt, but 45 trillion including unfunded social security and medicare, not even counting the pensions that will be defaulted on and paid by the Pension Guarantee benefit Corp (which is you the taxpayers by the way). Entire industries are going to default on pensions , and then health benefits. Airlines, Autos, steel....

    Wait til the Agriculture subsudies stop flowing...... ouch

    Anyone who wishes to save for his children is forced to speculate with their dollars to earn a return just to maintain purchasing power. I can't even file my own taxes anymore, let alone have all day to watch my money in the stock market. Hedge funds daily destroy good, hard working companies by unregulated short selling. The SEC is a joke.

    What happend to work hard and save ? Put it away and pass it to your kids. The only thing the US produces anymore is dollars. Why is financial services the majority of our economy ? Manufacturing is now 9% of the US economy. We have gutted this country. Corporations ahve shipped it overseas where labor is 1/10. no benefits, no environmental regulation..

    What kind of US future is that. How about the "me" generation who thinks they should have free drugs and medical, off the backs of their children. Who do you think pays for these" free govt" programs ? There is no free lunch. Those social security IOU's don't even exist. They are electronic bonds. Stored on a hard drive. Tell me how hard working americans have paid into a system that gives them an electron on a hard drive. Social security is based on taxation of its citizens. Pay as you go. Govt. is the problem. It is 40% of the US economy. We are eating our seed corn.

    jack-c-ville is right, the US has done very well printing the reserve currency of the world. Unfortunately, that game is just about over, and we are going to need innovative, self-sufficient , hard working people, like those who frequent this board to turn this country around.

    To blame it all on Bush is wrong. Fiat has paid for every war to date. Look at the public debt. Look at the US war record. It goes lockstep for funding wars. IF we had no warfare, strong state govt like the founders intended, instead of this huge federal govt monster. We would be better off. What is the strenght of the US today ? Technology ? Nano ? Everbody else can make it cheaper.. What natural resources do we have in the states ? Oil reserves ? Mining ? fresh water?

    Nobody wants to recognize China and India are experiencing their "industrial revolutions". The US has peaked. 1.3 Billion Chinese want a better life and they have tons of dollars from the trade deficits. Do they want our products.. no. They want our resources. Those shipping containers go back overseas empty, or full of aluminum, steel, paper, or any scrap they can get. Theare buying Canadian miners and mineral rights, negotiation oil with Venesula and the middle ease. Asia will be the next superpower over the next 100 years. We will continue to slip, like Britian had to the US. It all comes around.

    Forget saving the world, save your family. If anybody doubts fiat or the gold standard , I dare you to go buy 1 gold eagle bullion coin. It is 1 oz of gold, and costs about $430.00 dollars. You can get one at just about any coin shop. Come back in 5 years, see what $430.00 will buy you, then see how much that coin is worth. Seeing is believing.
     
  13. Ann Mary

    Ann Mary Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wow! All this from a little "mustard" in my question. :haha: Maybe I'll contact the magazine I saw this mentioned in and see if I can contact the author.....she doesn't live very far from me according to the magazine. Maybe she will give info about this "hot" new fuel! :)
     
  14. Ann Mary

    Ann Mary Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The author's name is MaryJane Butters and she writes the magazine My Countryside. The magazine in which I saw her reference mustard fuel for her 1983 Mercedes-Benz is Country Living June 2005 pg.94 for any of you who are interested. She is named as a "leading advocate for natural living".