Mineral

Discussion in 'Goats' started by jwcinpk, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. jwcinpk

    jwcinpk Well-Known Member

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    I am feeding free choice Ultralyx UltraMin Sheep and Goat Mineral, is it going to be sufficient?
    Calcium 14.5-17.40%
    8% phosphorus
    13.6 to 16.3% Salt
    Magnesium 2%
    Potassium 1%
    Cobalt 14ppm
    Copper 35-45 ppm
    Iron 2700 ppm
    Manganese 2000 ppm
    Molybdenum 60 ppm
    Selenium 12.3 ppm
    Zinc 4000 ppm
    Vit A 200,000 IU lb
    Vit D3 50,000 IU lb
    Vit E 400 IU lb
     
  2. stormwalker

    stormwalker Well-Known Member

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    Are you feeding grain formulated for goats vs. sheep?
     

  3. jwcinpk

    jwcinpk Well-Known Member

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    I feed a 50/50 mix of ground corn and corn gluten. Goats are always on decent pasture or have hay and some woods to browse. Been thinking of having the county agent formulate a feed recipe. Local feed mill gets more for a 50 lb bag of goat feed than 100 lbs of corn and gluten mix.
     
  4. SherrieC

    SherrieC Well-Known Member

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    We always use horse & cow mineral, because sheep can't handle as much copper as goats need, so you may want to change when that bag is out or if they are in with sheep supplement copper to the goats. And by the way I'm cold winter has come to Indiana :no:
     
  5. AnnaS

    AnnaS Well-Known Member

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    Sheep & goat mineral does not contain enough copper for optimum goat health. The level goats need would be toxic for sheep.
    I have both sheep and goats. The sheep mineral is kept in his pen and the goat mineral in their pen, but high enough so they must stand on their hind legs to eat it. The sheep would never think of standing up!

    For more info on copper:
    http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html
     
  6. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    The AD&E on your bag is correct. I do not try to balance my calcium to phosphorus ration with minerals, since a deffciency in something (here calcium and selenium) would make mineral type calcium unabsorbably anyway. I want dietary calcium (alfalfa etc.)

    My copper is 2000 ppm, my selenium 26.5 ppm. My Cobalt and most other minerals and trace minerals are higher, mostly because my mix also contains kelp.

    My goats would perform poorly on a mineral this low in copper and selenium, dependant upon where you live, yours likely aren't performing at their top performance either. Are you having to worm more often? Less kids per year than projected? Less milk?

    Just a mineral tag isn't important if their ration is balanced for what your goats need. Corn and corn gluten would put my dairy goats in a huge calcium imbalance for the amount of milk they are genetically bred to milk, compared to what they would be fed with this. So any answer to your question on your mineral tag, is dependant upon what you are asking your goats to do. Vicki
     
  7. jwcinpk

    jwcinpk Well-Known Member

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    Good response! So anything that is for sheep really isn't for goats. I am trying to find a mineral supplement that is right for my goats. They aren't looking really healthy this fall. Now what I want my goats to do is another subject. I want them to be happy and healthy and make plenty of babies. Perhaps I should be looking into a more balanced ration and maybe a mineral supplement by the same milling company. Can I acheive top quality health and body mass on a ration like the corn/gluten mix? I am figuring out goats aren't as easy as cows. Is Purina goat chow and goat mineral a good brand?
     
  8. stormwalker

    stormwalker Well-Known Member

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    My goats are doing well with Blue Seal products. I don't know if they're available in your area.
    Initially, it might cost more, but in the long run a well balanced feed is well worth it.
     
  9. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    The corn and corn gluten is fine, in fact the nutritionist who just talked about this with our club really likes the corn gluten, but it has to be balanced. You have to feed a better hay when feeding low protein, non calcium grain like this. Alfalfa pellets is how I do it, then I would use the corn gluten/corn when the girls are heavy bred (the last 50 days of pregnancy) and during their lactation (for you while they nurse their kids).

    I used Purina's 12 12 loose cattle minerals for years, until we found this new Bluebonnet Tex Master mineral for cows, horses and goats. So I know my goats did well with it. Purina goat chow is way to expensive to be a choice in anything but a tiny herd, it is also a byproduct label, you really never know from one moment to the next what exactly is in it. How about adding oats to your corn, or just doing the oats and corn gluten meal? Are oats clean and whole in your area, and readily available? With alfalfa pellets for your protein and calcium, your corn for energy and fat, your oats for your carbohydrates and a really good mineral mix out, dry and free choice, you would have most of your problems licked. A good grass hay would then become secondary with the alfalfa pellets out, they would mostly want the hay when stuck in the barn because of weather. I like feeding a good grass hay (not the horrid cow stuff) because cured correctly it has natural bicarb in it, I also love buying hay from here and there, getting different nutrients from different areas the hay is cut in.

    What area are you in? Vicki
     
  10. Al. Countryboy

    Al. Countryboy Well-Known Member

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    Hoegger's catalog used to and may still have a statement refering to goats in it that says,"Always remember, a little corn goes along way." I have always tried to keep that in mind.
     
  11. YuccaFlatsRanch

    YuccaFlatsRanch Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is the Concentrate supplement feed we feed to sheep and boer goats. Each gets their own mineral supplements plus good horse quality alfalfa and a mix of sudan and Coastal hay (free choice).

    Ingredient QTY Digest Prot Protein wt

    Corn 20 0.067 1.34

    Oats 20 0.094 1.88

    Wheat Whole 20 0.111 2.22

    Soy Meal 20 0.375 7.5

    Alfalfa Pellets 10 0.118 1.18

    Molasses 10 0 0

    Salt 1 0 0

    101 14.12%


    Cost works out at about $6.00 per 50 lb bag. Nutrient analysis numbers are from Morrisons Feed and Feeding book. Remember digestable protein is always lower than crude protein.

    I also feed this to my chickens and rabbits, except for the rabbits I add additional alfalfa pellets.
     
  12. jwcinpk

    jwcinpk Well-Known Member

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    Oats are available however I don't know much about their condition. There is a feed mill right up the road from me and he has told me before that he would mix me feed any way I wanted. Says he can get virtually anything I want. I cut my own hay. I didn't get a test done on it this year, but I know it is good hay. Mostly orchard grass with red clover in it. We've talked about growing alfalfa in the past, but never thought of it for the goats. It always seemed they liked the roughest hay you could find the best. My goats always have plenty of browse, both pasture and woods. The local feed mill has a goat feed, but to be honest it is more expensive and the goats don't like it as well. Ive tried all his recipes and they like the corn/ gluten best. They hardly ate the 80/20 corn soybean meal mix, or his goat feed. They loved the sweet feed he sells at 16% protein, but I geuss I figured the corn/gluten was so much cheaper and they liked it just as well why feed the sweet feed. I have about 30 head and the cost isn't so bad. Honestly I geuss if I was in it for the money I would have none!
     
  13. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    OK....than going with what you wrote :) Keep the diet like you have it, improve your minerals by going cow or horse, no more sheep and goat anything :) At the very least I would offer 1 pound of alfalfa pellets to your heavy bred does from 100 days bred through weaning. But you can also improve the calcium level in the minerals with a high calcium addition. And durn if I can't remember what it is called!!

    Just remember keep the minerals dry, keep them out all the time, and offer no other forms of salt, they go to the loose minerals for the salt. Goats do not say to themselves, dang I need more copper today, they only go to the mineral because they crave salt, which is not naturally found in their browse or hay. And why I don't like heavily molassased minerals which scew this by making the girls want to eat their minerals because of it being dessert!

    With the high amount of phos in corn I would be a little concerned about urinary calculi in my bucks. Do you put out ammonium chloride in either you mineral or your corn? Here with the high amounts of iron in our water, you couldn't feed much of a diet like this without problems. Vicki
     
  14. jwcinpk

    jwcinpk Well-Known Member

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    No ammonium chloride. Never noticed any problem with the buck. Could become a problem with age though. He's relatively young now. I just want to make sure my herd is getting what they deserve. I hate seeing animals mistreated. The University of Kentucky is really pushing corn gluten right now. Sometimes I wonder if it is because it needs to be gotten rid of. Seems to be cycles in the feed recomendations where they switch what they recommend.
    I will stay with my gluten mix and change to a mineral higher in copper. I will pick up some alfalfa pellets or cubes and offer them to soon to be moms.
    Kentucky is rapidly becoming a goat state and there isn't a lot of knowledge about them here. I would like to expand my herd to about 100 and if prices stay steady 300.