Medication???

Discussion in 'Goats' started by GOATDADDY, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. GOATDADDY

    GOATDADDY Well-Known Member

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    Please advise. Picked up my goat herd yesterday. 5 does,probably pregnant,due in May. The gentleman I purchased them from told me it was time for their CDandT injection. I called my vet on my way home, he was about to close but he reccommended covinex 8, which I said "ok, sure". He left it for me outside all packed in a cooler. My question is since they were getting cdt before, how much do I give of this covinex 8 initially? I don't want to give too much and make them sick, give to little and not do any good or hurt their babies. The gentleman I bought them from said the cdt was good for the babies but what about the covinex 8. When I talked to the vet my cell phone was not great to say the least and we didn't discuss all these possiblities. Thanks for all your past comments too.
     
  2. Goatladywebb

    Goatladywebb Member

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    I don't give the CD/T vaccination until the last 30 days of pregnancy. Why does the seller want you to vaccinate this early? You give it within the last 30 days of pregnancy so that some it carries
    over with the babies in their first few weeks out of their moms. I don't use Covexin...Cd/T was just always easier for me to get.If Covexin works as good as CD/T,and it is time for their vaccination..I don't think it will hurt to switch from one brand to another if they do the same thing.The key thing is....is it time for the vaccination?
     

  3. GOATDADDY

    GOATDADDY Well-Known Member

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    According to the vet, the covexin covers more bad bugs. He seemed to indicate it is cdt with additional med in it. Also, if it has been two years since I last treated my sheep, should I use a booster dose or an initial dose. Should I use it at all, should I wait, God only knows if these goats are pregnant anyway. Maybe I should wait till the kids are born. What a mess!! I love it!!
     
  4. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    If you are not sure if and when they are due hit them now. You will have to give a second shot in 2 weeks I believe since it has been more than a year since there last shot. Same for the sheep, start all over again. Hope all goes well. What about worming? Also you can buy the vaccines probally much cheaper at the feed store tractor supply or out of catalog.
     
  5. AnnaS

    AnnaS Well-Known Member

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    Covexin 8 vaccinates against Red Water Disease, Big Head, and Blackleg in addition to the enterotoxemias C & D and tetanus. According to my Merek's Vet Manual, the first 3 diseases affect cattle and sheep, but not goats. It won't hurt your goats, but it won't do them any good either and Co8 is slightly more expensive than CD&T.

    Follow the dosing instructions on the label as though they are unvaccinated. Although they can't be infected with some of the above diseases, they can still develop antibodies against them. These will be all new antibodies, as opposed to the CD&T which will just be reminders to their immune system. I believe these are killed vaccines so you can't "overdose." Same deal with the sheep.

    You can vaccinate pregnant does anywhere from 30-60 days before they kid. After a first vaccination, it takes 2-3 weeks to develop antibodies (only a couple days if they have previous vacs). The does start putting antibodies for colostrum in the udder 4-6 weeks before kidding and you want her to have all the Co8 antibodies to give to her kids.

    Hope this helps!
     
  6. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

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    I give my kids CD&T, when they are an hour old. also I give them BOSE, and vitamin b complex.
    my does get these shots, 3 to 6 weeks before kidding, they get it every year. if they go over, I give them a booster.
    all babies get a second shot at 10 days. my babies are healthy, and shiny coats. IT is just a good thing to do.
    I worm my girls, when they kid.
     
  7. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Does your vet see lots of goats in your area? Black leg is why most folks use Covexin 8. It gives you protection from Malignant Edema/Gangrenous Mastitis, so if this was a problem in your area, or you love your vet like I do mine, I would listen. A new vet with poor goat information...than you can use it but go back to a plain ole CD&T when the bottle runs out. The directions are heeded from the bottle. The problem with using something like Covexin 8 with 8 clostridiums, including tetanus, is that you are using things your goats don't need immunity to, and you are also giving less, more diluted forms of stuff your goats need, CD&T. Here Tetanus is the biggy, alot of folks use a Tetanus toxoid shot and then use C&D toxoids, so they get the full amount of the immunity from a single shot. So you are actually giving less of all 8 of the bacterins. It is commonly used though, does cause larger granulmas and shotsite abscess, so give it the same place to all of them, so you know the difference between the lump from the shot and a new lump of CL coming up, and make sure you give the shots cleanly.

    I always revaccinate incoming stock, and offhand comments from breeders, like, they are due to be wormed, or vaccinated or or or, usually means, hey I don't even remember when I last gave them anything, so I will throw that out to be safe :) So vaccinate them now, give another shot at 21 days, which is close enough to 3 weeks prekidding to be safe. It stimulates the dams immunity (and don't forget to do your buck) which sends antibody from the mom into the colostrum for the kids.

    You do not give a toxoid to a kid a birth, sorry. It does nothing but prevent absorption of antibody from the moms colostrum. If you want to help your kids, give the shot to mom prekidding, than start the kids on their toxoid at 3 weeks, we then give it again at 9 weeks, and then again at 12 weeks. I also give it prebreeding to all buck and does and prekidding to all bucks and does, this gives us our 2 shots a year.

    Yep make sure you worm them, and honestly with them being new, a worming now with this first shot, a worming in 21 days with the second shot, and then a worming the day they kid, would break the cycle of worms in their system. I would use Ivermctin orally, since it is great for arrested larve, the biggest concern this time of year. Vicki
     
  8. GOATDADDY

    GOATDADDY Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again for the great info.!!! I was out checking my herd when I had another thought. The gentleman I bought the goats from made the comment that goats did not really need mineral. I always try and keep the right kind of mineral for my sheep and few cattle. I was just about to give some pro phos 12 to my goats but I thought I better write and ask for advice regarding this practice. Vicki, my vet is a veteran vet but goats are not big up here (cattle) and I doubt if he keeps up on what works good with goats. He seems to sort of figure that what is ok for a sheep is ok for a goat.
     
  9. tduerson

    tduerson Well-Known Member

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    Hi GoatDaddy,

    I have always used Convexin 8 on all of my Goats. I like the fact that it protects agains more than just CD&T. It has work great for me.

    As far as minerals go, Goats need Free Choice minerals at all times. It is recommended that it is 2:1 Calcium and Prosphate (I did Not spell that right, I dont think) also they need Copper. I have just switched my minerals (can't find what I really like) to Beef Max 2:1, I got it at Southern States. Copper is toxic to sheep, but goats need quit a bit of it. Most people suggest having Free Choice Baking Soda as well, to help with the rumanant. Oh I almost forgot, are you in a Seleium Deficient area. If so you need to make sure that are getting what is reccomended, but take care of the amounts there is a fine line in the right amount and a toxic dosage. Also if you are in a area where the Seleium is sufficient then you need to watch what minerals you give them to make sure it does not have this in it.

    I hope this helps

    Tina
     
  10. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Well than pick your vets brain on raising cattle then. Goats certainly have more needs closer to cattle than sheep! In fact anything labeled for sheep should never be used on goats. Whatever mineral you are using on cattle in your area, in a loose form is fine for the goats. Calcium and Copper will be your biggest concerns, but we do not up the calcium in our goats diet via their mineral anyway, you will use alfalfa meal in their pellets, or alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets. It's hard when you start out, knowing that your vet and feed dealers are really sabatoging you unknowingly from having eaisly cared for stock with bad information.

    Even other breeders like the guy you purchased from, sure goats only really need pasture and water and a place to get out of the wet. But to do it this way you have to accept huge loss, especially in your kid crops, bred does, and milking/nursing moms. Add minerals, vaccinating and worming you can so drastically improve your herd health and mortality rates it's certainly worth the effort and cost to do it. Add excellent nutrition information, knowing why and when you are feeding what to your goats, not grain grain grain, but quality hay when the does are heavy bred and the pastures are depleted, keeping your goats lean, not feeding grain when the does are not heavy bred or nursing, feeding bucks during rut, costs you several hundred dollars a year, and gives you more kids, more milk to grow bigger kids, and makes you more money than the costs of food you feed to the dams and creep fed kids while nursing.

    It should be about your bottom line, so take some of what you read with a huge grain of minerals :) Vicki