Maryland. Bird flu. Low Path type

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by suburbanite, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. suburbanite

    suburbanite Well-Known Member

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    This is a link to a reuters story about bird flu in Maryland. Again, they're saying that it is the low pathogenic form that has been on this continent for a long time, not the deadly asian variant.

    Why call attention to low path? So that people don't hear half the story somewhere and wig out thinking it is the more dangerous kind.

    If you are a poultry farmer in the area where they found this duck, you need to know this because this illness, while harmless to people, can sicken your birds, keep them from gaining weight, shut down their egg production, and kill a small percentage of them. Ducks are the carriers; don't let your chickens associate with waterfowl or range in places frequented by waterfowl. Commercial farms with a case will be forced to cull the affected flock in the interest of protecting the industry. Antibiotics have no effect on the illness because it is a virus, not a bacteria.

    So. Here's the link:

    http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story...ag/story/data/1157154512306.xml&catref=ag1001
     
  2. Dec429

    Dec429 Well-Known Member

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    And don't let your goats associate with your sheep because in a labratory induced experiment, a goat got scrapies!

    Meanwhile, I've been wondering what "they" are doing, while the migratory birds do what they've done for centuries our birds are gonna be chipped. Ok, just how much control do you need, and does anyone but me remember when the "Swine Flu" didn't materaise? I submit the question, are they going to kill off every wild contingent of birds so that "they" can control the genetics of the survivors?

    NAIS is after the fact. We're owned right down to DotCommi'es rice.

    I do my damdest, in my sphere of influence to make a difference. Don and I, in are having a commitment ceremony in the presense of our friends. I credit good people who attend this campout as good people as EVERYONE has known that at the Fall 4th Annual Fall Buffalo River Rats Campout, Dennis and Don will take their vows. Simple Quaker vows that I, and you, with God's help pledge to be a good partner.
     

  3. suburbanite

    suburbanite Well-Known Member

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    "They" are not doing anything to the migratory birds except monitoring the situation. Even without the dangerous Asian variant, whenever this low-path H5N1 virus has turned up in wild birds, it has been a threat to domestic poultry. This (and terrorism) is why large-scale chicken farms have been required to increase their biosecurity over the past decade.

    It isn't lab experiments that show that low path H5N1 can transmit from ducks to chickens. It has been spontaneous outbreaks of the virus in domestic flocks which proves it. Just early this year there was an outbreak of it in a Canadian chicken farm near the Washington border, and all the chickens there had to be culled.

    Its impossible to tell if the reason swine flu didn't spread was that it couldn't, or if the vaccination program did its job and prevented it from doing so. No way to tell if there would have been a problem or not if we'd done nothing back then.

    Scrapie-infected sheep protein fed to cows is what started mad cow disease. But your comment about sheep and goats--if you *knew* the sheep had scrapie, wouldn't you keep them apart?

    In Maryland, the situation is that this virus is 'going around' in wild ducks, who may have it and be without symptoms. If your domestic ducks never cross paths with wild ducks or wild duck poop, then your ducks are no threat to your chickens. But if your domestic ducks share a pond with wild ones, then your domestic ducks can bring it home (without having symptoms themselves) and make your chickens sick. It's the same principle as when your kindergartener picks up a stomach bug at school and the whole family winds up with diarrhea.

    Isn't fall duck season? This would also suggest that duck hunters in Maryland should probably be extra careful cleaning their kills and washing up before going out to tend livestock. It would be bad to track infected duck blood through the henhouse on your boots.

    When humans catch a low path bird flu they tend to get viral conjunctivitis--you've seen people where the whites of their eyes turn not pink, but bright red--the color of blood--and it takes a couple of weeks for the color to fade out? That's the kind of thing that could happen if, say, you got splatter from an infected bird in your face while butchering it. Another situation where you probably want someone else to feed the chickens for awhile, to protect the chickens. Probably also a good idea to avoid contact with your birds if you have a human flu, since some of those can nail birds too.

    Yeah, I'm a bird flu wonk, but this stuff ain't hard and it can keep your critters safer.
     
  4. mandyh

    mandyh Well-Known Member

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    We had problems a few years ago also. The poor 4h children couldn't show their birds at the fair. They where band from the fair the first year and the second year they could show them butchered and ready for market.
     
  5. kesoaps

    kesoaps Well-Known Member

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    Scrapie hasn't been shown to spread horizontally, so no, I wouldn't worry about an infected animal alongside another one (at least not a goat/sheep 'contamination'.) The scrapie program doesn't even monitor fairs, where people go from animal to animal touching and petting, which rather goes to show that even the authorities know it's a terribly low risk, if any at all.

    Which I suppose is why it's so difficult to believe the government when they start crying wolf...which is a shame, because obviously there are some things that should be done, or could be done, to improve flock/herd health no matter what you're raising.
     
  6. Lairvine

    Lairvine Pure-T-Mommicked, son!!!

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    Suburbanite,
    There has Always been low path and high path bird flu. The low path kinds have been in justabout anyplace you can think of. It Is Not Something New. Why are you trying to scare the people on this board? Do you work for PETA? or another ARA group that does not want people to have animals? I would rather you try to find something new and helpful to post about then the same hype that is on the news every day by the unimformed. :nono:
    Lee Ann
     
  7. suburbanite

    suburbanite Well-Known Member

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    Lairvane, I posted this about low path because I have little faith in reporters. They have a tendency to hype things up and I wanted people to know that *this* H5N1 is the low path type that, as you have said, is Not Something New.

    That said, the fact that there is an *outbreak* of it in birds in Maryland means that people in Maryland might want to keep their birds more protected for now. Even though this is the usual 'seasonal flu' for the birds, you still don't want your birds to get it, do you?

    I am not trying to scare people on this board. I am trying to get people to stop blowing off the Asian flu as a non-issue. Farmers need a plan for what to do if it comes here as a bird-pandemic, and everyone needs a plan for what to do if it comes here as a human-pandemic.

    I don't see any evidence of planning, all I see is people, like you, 'blowing it off' and blaming it all on hype.

    If I knew that everyone here with poultry was segregating their waterfowl from their chickens and turkeys, if I knew that everyone here had built their coop so they could at the drop of a hat start to keep their poultry in biologically isolated conditions (as are legally required of commercial poultry operations), if I knew that everyone here had educated themselves as to the symptoms of the illness in birds and was going to take seriously any governing body's advice that might come about locking up birds, then I wouldn't feel the need to post on the topic.

    As it is, the attitudes I'm seeing are no better than the rural chicken farmers of Indonesia, who are hiding their sick and dying birds as well as their deathly-ill people, whenever western-style medicine comes looking for them. Nobody here is prepared.

    Suppose on Tuesday (since Monday is a holiday), USDA or whomever announced that a high-path H5N1 was isolated from a goose in Virginia. Would you be ready to protect your flocks at the drop of a hat, with no warning? If you're planning to just run down to the feed store or the hardware store to deal with it when the time comes, don't you think that everyone else like you will have had the same idea, and the shelves will have been stripped bare of the items you want?

    I'm saying people should make their facilities bio-safe now so that if there's a problem you can just shut your chickens in their infection-resistant run and you're through with it, because you've already got everything in place to protect them. The worst that can come of this is that you have healthier chickens because you're able to keep them more protected from all forms of infectious bird illness.

    USDA has information about how to build coops to protect chickens from bird flus and newcastle. It's in the poultry forum useful links thread.
     
  8. commomsense

    commomsense Beef,Its whats for dinner

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    Most people don't have the money to make their coop boi-safe. I'm not worried.Whats the point in worrying?People shold be more worried about wild birds carrying bird flu.Since Probably around 95% of birds are wild.
     
  9. Lairvine

    Lairvine Pure-T-Mommicked, son!!!

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    Please by all meams reread your post, for all your scientific knowledge of viruses you of all people should know that H5N1 is NOT THE ONLY TYPE OF BIRD FLU OUT THERE. For example there could be an H5N2, H7N9 and so on,so yes I do believe that you are fueling they hype. We are not in Indonesia, We are here in the USA the land of hype. Disease, of any kind is bad, But we must live with/through it. A common cold can be deadly or it can just cause the sniffles, depends on the person that has it or the STRAIN that they have, they are not all the same. It is when someone blows something out of proportion that everyone goes crazy, like saying all strains of bird flu are H5N1.




     
  10. suburbanite

    suburbanite Well-Known Member

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    And that is the point of having the discussion, Lairvine. So that people know that there are many kinds of bird flu, and even the kind H5N1 has deadly and non-deadly strains.

    The more people know, the less room there is for fear, and the more equipped they can be to deal with any problem that may arise.

    In any case, preparing a 'biosecure' refuge for your chickens, and knowing how to use it, is a good thing whether the dangerous strain arrives or not. The strains that are not lethal to chickens and rarely infect humans can still stop egg production and weight gain in a back-yard flock. If they are known to be circulating in the birds of your area, it makes sense to 'keep the chicks home from school' so to speak--limit their free ranging--until the wave of virus in wild birds has passed.

    I've had some reactions around here as though bird flu were a forbidden topic of discussion. It shouldn't be any more avoided than a discussion of rabies shots for dogs. This is a virus that is in the environment and that may at some point come to our area--either as a bird problem or a people problem. So we just need to know ahead of time how to limit its ability to hurt us.

    And we need to watch the news to know what *isn't* a threat as well, so that we won't be taken in by 'hype'.
     
  11. Lairvine

    Lairvine Pure-T-Mommicked, son!!!

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    Ok here is they HYPE you are fueling Suburbanite,

    http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...4_RTRUKOC_0_US-BIRDFLU-USA.xml&archived=False

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Mallard ducks in Pennsylvania have tested positive for a low-pathogenic strain of the H5N1 bird flu virus, the U.S. Agriculture and Interior departments said on Saturday, adding to cases detected recently in Maryland and Michigan.

    A strain of the H5N1 avian influenza virus was found in wild ducks sampled August 28 in Crawford County in northwestern Pennsylvania.

    "Testing has ruled out the possibility of this being the highly pathogenic H5N1 strain that has spread through birds in Asia, Europe and Africa," USDA and Interior said in a statement. "Test results thus far indicate this is low pathogenic avian influenza, which poses no risk to human health."[/B]
    The government said it was conducting additional tests to determine, in part, if the ducks had H5N1 or two separate strains with one virus contributing H5 and the other N1. A second round of tests could take five to 10 more days to confirm whether it was the low-pathogenic H5N1 bird flu.

    The virus also has been found during the last month in Michigan and on Friday in Maryland. The Maryland mallards did not appear sick so the samples, collected on August 2 as part of a research project, were not given high priority when sent to USDA labs for testing.

    The U.S. departments of Agriculture and Interior are working with states to collect between 75,000 and 100,000 wild bird samples in addition to more than 50,000 environmental tests throughout the United States.

    A low-pathogenic strain, which produces less disease and mortality in birds than does a high-pathogenic version, poses no threat to humans. It is common for mild and low pathogenic strains of bird flu to appear in the United States and other countries.

    The latest H5N1 bird flu strain in Asia, Europe and Africa is known to have killed at least 141 people and forced hundreds of millions of birds to be destroyed.

    (Additional reporting by Christopher Doering)



    © Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

    So umm hmm no H5N1 low path...just 2 different strains, and they linked to together to cause more upset among the fearfull..... A virus specialest, like you told me earlier via PM, such as yourself should know better than to scare.. but ohhh yea you probly worked for one of those big drug companys that NEED the hype to stay in business.
     
  12. suburbanite

    suburbanite Well-Known Member

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    That isn't hype, or scaremongering. The article just tells us what tests they're running.

    I don't understand why you're so upset.

    You're also mis-characterizing what I said in PMs.