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My son sent me this. It hits the nail with the hammer.

 

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My son sent me this. It hits the nail with the hammer.

Spot on. I especially liked the analogy of extreme government overreach regarding a marginally threatening disease to a husband only hitting a wife because he loves her.
 

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I pretty much agree.

Just wondering about the ability to protect all patients from being infected by the caregivers. I probably should be saying the very unlikely ability to protect the patients from the caregivers.
Theory and fact are two different things. Our government imposed very stringent rules for those working in nursing homes, including not being able to work part time at one or more facilities.

In the facility I'm familiar with, patients are no safer by locking people away from their families. The duty RN's and RNA's are familiar with PPE but each one of them has family and real lives and exist within the community and any one could be an asymptomatic carrier.

Patients are visited by doctors, physio therapists, occupational therapists, denturists, various people from geriatric assessment programs, part time cleaning staff, part time kitchen staff, etc and that doesn't include those who are transferred to local hospital and labs for tests and x-rays or trips to dentists for optometrists.

Thousands of people come in contact with those seniors that others believe to be safe while they are locked away from family members and it's unrealistic to assume all those people are all super cautious and caring while family members who want access to them are selfish carriers risking the lives of every patient in the facility.

Big noise was made about the seniors who died but very little mention of those who recovered. While we were reading about 'patients dropping like flies' in a Calgary facility with little mention of those who recovered just as quickly as the rest of the population.

Sadly, nobody is interested in hearing what those in nursing homes want and it seems like another case of somebody assuming to know what's best for somebody else with no compelling evidence to prove there is any merit in the theory.
 

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Being "poor" usually means more help, in my experience. The family just has to want to do it, and it's not easy.

It's not much different than what my family has done for decades- parents work different shifts so someone is always home. Absolutely doable.

If a family is worried about their alert and oriented elderly there is an option- bring them home.
For some families, yes. For others, not so much. You're making too many assumptions.
Both programs will pay for home health aides. The bottom line is if you want your alert and oriented family member home, it can be done.
I am an example of what you're saying: My mother in law recently moved in with us. I spent several thousand dollars remodeling our garage into an indoor space, including a bedroom for her. I certainly had the time and money to do so. But then, I'm quite well-off compared to most.

What about a single mother with three children, working 30 hours/week at minimum wage and scraping by with TANF assistance, living in a one-bedroom 700-square-foot apartment, sharing her bedroom with her kids, who still has month left when the money runs out? What does she do in a similar circumstance?

All I'm saying here is that not every situation fits into your description; people fall through the cracks. Also, I'm not sure why you've limited things to "alert and oriented" because that's not necessarily the situation with a lot of the cases in the OP, so you're only making a point about a subset of them at most.
 

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For some families, yes. For others, not so much. You're making too many assumptions.

I am an example of what you're saying: My mother in law recently moved in with us. I spent several thousand dollars remodeling our garage into an indoor space, including a bedroom for her. I certainly had the time and money to do so. But then, I'm quite well-off compared to most.

What about a single mother with three children, working 30 hours/week at minimum wage and scraping by with TANF assistance, living in a one-bedroom 700-square-foot apartment, sharing her bedroom with her kids, who still has month left when the money runs out? What does she do in a similar circumstance?

All I'm saying here is that not every situation fits into your description; people fall through the cracks. Also, I'm not sure why you've limited things to "alert and oriented" because that's not necessarily the situation with a lot of the cases in the OP, so you're only making a point about a subset of them at most.
You're assuming that the addition of another person into the household wouldn't bring additional benefits, many elderly people do receive Social Security, pensions, etc. My entire point is: if you want your elderly alert and oriented family member out of a nursing home so they aren't isolated in the pandemic it can be done. You can get help from various agencies to allow them in your home.

*Alert and oriented is a way of determining if a person is legally and medically competent. Google elder law. If they are not alert and oriented to name, year, place, and situation they probably won't be released from a medical facility without a court fight. In my opinion, if a person isn't alert and oriented they need to be were they can be protected, ie. medical facility.
 

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My entire point is: if you want your elderly alert and oriented family member out of a nursing home so they aren't isolated in the pandemic it can be done.
In most cases of those in nursing homes, it can't be done.
It's not just a matter of what people "want".

You're assuming that the addition of another person into the household wouldn't bring additional benefits, many elderly people do receive Social Security, pensions, etc.
Most all that "extra" money would go towards the payment for services.
They would be allowed to keep $30 per month as long as they owned no property and had less than $2000 in any savings accounts.
 

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In most cases of those in nursing homes, it can't be done.
It's not just a matter of what people "want".


Mot all that "extra" money would go towards the payment for services.
They would be allowed to keep $30 per month as long as they owned no property and had less than $2000 in any savings accounts.
Thank you for your opinion. :)
 

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Thank you for your opinion. :)
Those are the facts.


"Eligibility Requirements for Medicaid Home Care
In order to be eligible for Medicaid, and hence, in-home care, there are eligibility requirements that must be met. In addition to being a resident in the state in which one applies, there are also financial and functional needs that must be met.

Financial Criteria
While both income and assets are considered for Medicaid eligibility purposes, the limits vary based on the state in which one resides and the program for which one is applying. In order to be eligible for the regular state Medicaid program, one must meet the criteria set forth for their specific eligibility group. For the purposes of this article, the eligibility group is “aged, blind and disabled”.

Generally speaking, most states limit one’s monthly income to either 100% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) or 100% of Supplemental Security Income (SSI) / Federal Benefit Rate (FBR).

As of 2020, a state that utilizes 100% of the FPL as the income limit allows a single applicant up to $1,063 / month. States that utilize 100% of SSI, limits an individual’s income to $783 / month (as of 2020).

Assets are also considered and are generally limited to $2,000 for an individual.

See state-specific Medicaid eligibility requirements for home care here.
HCBS Medicaid waivers and LTSS demonstration waivers generally allow higher income limits than do state Medicaid plans. Often, these waivers utilize the same eligibility requirements as does institutional (nursing home) Medicaid.

As a general rule of thumb, in 2020, 300% of SSI is used as the income limit. This means that an individual cannot have more than $2,349 / month in income.

There is also an asset limit, which in most cases, is $2,000."
 

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Those are the facts.


"Eligibility Requirements for Medicaid Home Care
In order to be eligible for Medicaid, and hence, in-home care, there are eligibility requirements that must be met. In addition to being a resident in the state in which one applies, there are also financial and functional needs that must be met.

Financial Criteria
While both income and assets are considered for Medicaid eligibility purposes, the limits vary based on the state in which one resides and the program for which one is applying. In order to be eligible for the regular state Medicaid program, one must meet the criteria set forth for their specific eligibility group. For the purposes of this article, the eligibility group is “aged, blind and disabled”.

Generally speaking, most states limit one’s monthly income to either 100% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) or 100% of Supplemental Security Income (SSI) / Federal Benefit Rate (FBR).

As of 2020, a state that utilizes 100% of the FPL as the income limit allows a single applicant up to $1,063 / month. States that utilize 100% of SSI, limits an individual’s income to $783 / month (as of 2020).

Assets are also considered and are generally limited to $2,000 for an individual.

See state-specific Medicaid eligibility requirements for home care here.
HCBS Medicaid waivers and LTSS demonstration waivers generally allow higher income limits than do state Medicaid plans. Often, these waivers utilize the same eligibility requirements as does institutional (nursing home) Medicaid.

As a general rule of thumb, in 2020, 300% of SSI is used as the income limit. This means that an individual cannot have more than $2,349 / month in income.

There is also an asset limit, which in most cases, is $2,000."
Thank you. And that up to $1063.00, or if on SSI up to $783.00, would help support the alert and oriented person in a family member's home correct? Would they also be eligible for SNAP and other benefits? Perhaps the family member would be eligible for a larger home due to another person living there, is that possible too?
 

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Those are the facts.


"Eligibility Requirements for Medicaid Home Care
In order to be eligible for Medicaid, and hence, in-home care, there are eligibility requirements that must be met. In addition to being a resident in the state in which one applies, there are also financial and functional needs that must be met.

Financial Criteria
While both income and assets are considered for Medicaid eligibility purposes, the limits vary based on the state in which one resides and the program for which one is applying. In order to be eligible for the regular state Medicaid program, one must meet the criteria set forth for their specific eligibility group. For the purposes of this article, the eligibility group is “aged, blind and disabled”.

Generally speaking, most states limit one’s monthly income to either 100% of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) or 100% of Supplemental Security Income (SSI) / Federal Benefit Rate (FBR).

As of 2020, a state that utilizes 100% of the FPL as the income limit allows a single applicant up to $1,063 / month. States that utilize 100% of SSI, limits an individual’s income to $783 / month (as of 2020).

Assets are also considered and are generally limited to $2,000 for an individual.

See state-specific Medicaid eligibility requirements for home care here.
HCBS Medicaid waivers and LTSS demonstration waivers generally allow higher income limits than do state Medicaid plans. Often, these waivers utilize the same eligibility requirements as does institutional (nursing home) Medicaid.

As a general rule of thumb, in 2020, 300% of SSI is used as the income limit. This means that an individual cannot have more than $2,349 / month in income.

There is also an asset limit, which in most cases, is $2,000."
If the elder is in a nursing home paid by medicare they are already meeting these requirements.
 

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Thank you. And that up to $1063.00, or if on SSI up to $783.00, would help support the alert and oriented person in a family member's home correct?
It all goes to the service provider, not to the "family member".
It typically isn't enough to cover all expenses.

Would they also be eligible for SNAP and other benefits?
Look it up yourself.

Perhaps the family member would be eligible for a larger home due to another person living there, is that possible too?
I don't see how an extra $30 per month will get anyone a larger home.
You're grasping at straws.
 

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You're assuming that the addition of another person into the household wouldn't bring additional benefits, many elderly people do receive Social Security, pensions, etc. My entire point is: if you want your elderly alert and oriented family member out of a nursing home so they aren't isolated in the pandemic it can be done. You can get help from various agencies to allow them in your home.

*Alert and oriented is a way of determining if a person is legally and medically competent. Google elder law. If they are not alert and oriented to name, year, place, and situation they probably won't be released from a medical facility without a court fight. In my opinion, if a person isn't alert and oriented they need to be were they can be protected, ie. medical facility.
As someone who has taken in an elderly relative, the amount of money we spend on her far exceeds the amount of money she contributes to the family. Not that we have her here for money or would kick her out because of it, but it's definitely a net loss for us. Thankfully we can afford it. If we were poor, and she were in the same financial boat she's currently in, we'd have to figure something else out because we probably financially couldn't do it.

Physically taking care of someone who is unable to take care of themselves is a whole other issue. Yes, you can get people in, but it's not nearly often or long enough unless you pay out of pocket - especially if the person is immobile. In my case, I simply cannot physically lift her. If it gets to the point that she is unable to help me help her, again we'll have to figure another situation out.

I'm not saying people can't and don't do it. But it's not a walk in the park, it's not cheap, and it's definitely not easy.
 

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I'm not saying people can't and don't do it. But it's not a walk in the park, it's not cheap, and it's definitely not easy.
This is what I've been saying for the last two pages. It's not easy, and many families won't do it, but it can be done.
 

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I don't see how an extra $30 per month will get anyone a larger home.You're grasping at straws.
I was referring to the single mother with kids who receives government benefits as indicated by a prior poster, ie. "poor person", if another person joins the household they may qualify for a larger home (ie. apartment, etc.). Apparently I wasn't clear, or maybe I was... doesn't matter. :)
 

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This is what I've been saying for the last two pages. It's not easy, and many families won't do it, but it can be done.
Alcoholics can stop drinking any time and fat people can lose all the weight they want by simply sticking to a diet.

It can be done. ;)
 

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You're assuming that the addition of another person into the household wouldn't bring additional benefits, many elderly people do receive Social Security, pensions, etc. My entire point is: if you want your elderly alert and oriented family member out of a nursing home so they aren't isolated in the pandemic it can be done. You can get help from various agencies to allow them in your home.
You are speaking from experience?
 

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I was referring to the single mother with kids who receives government benefits as indicated by a prior poster, ie. "poor person", if another person joins the household they may qualify for a larger home (ie. apartment, etc.). Apparently I wasn't clear, or maybe I was... doesn't matter. :)
Perhaps moving is less expensive in the US than it is in Canada but I have found that even transfer of utilities to a new location costs close to $500 and that's not including the actual move itself.

With my own trucks and trailers (which many poor people don't own) and volunteer help for moving, my last move cost over $1,000.00 in actual out of pocket expenses, which really doesn't factor into the budget for the working poor who will likely also have to rent truck or moving van.
 

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You are speaking from experience?
Second hand experience. As I explained earlier in the thread, my uncle kept my grandmother in their home (he was a dairy farmer) with the help of home health aides (Medicare, a county agency, and later Medicaid) until she deteriorated to the point where she went to a specialized care facility. He lost part of the family farm to pay for what Medicaid paid out for her care.

You have personal experience with Medicaid, I believe? I think I read that in one thread or another. Does your experience differ?
 
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Perhaps moving is less expensive in the US than it is in Canada but I have found that even transfer of utilities to a new location costs close to $500 and that's not including the actual move itself.

With my own trucks and trailers (which many poor people don't own) and volunteer help for moving, my last move cost over $1,000.00 in actual out of pocket expenses, which really doesn't factor into the budget for the working poor who will likely also have to rent truck or moving van.
Yes, definitely a different price point for moving. We moved last November, I packed small personal items, the movers took apart, packed, and moved everything else. There was overnight storage, and they unloaded all of it the next day in the new house. It was a bit more than you paid doing it yourself, including a generous tip.

Coincidentally, I received a breakdown of where our monthly donations go to Catholic Charities in yesterday's mail, and among them they help pay for moving expenses, utility hookup, and other incidentals.

Again, if a person wants their alert and oriented person in their home and out of a nursing home, it can be done.
 
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