[Bernie7]

Hello, I live on 20 acres in Washington and am an avid hunter with a burgeoning homestead.

In particular, I am a very passionate bird hunter and hunt over a Brittany and soon a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. That being said, while bird hunting this winter I came across rabbits and realized a couple of things 1. My Brittany has no idea what he's doing hunting rabbits 2. I love chasing, shooting and eating rabbits and I need a rabbit dog.

Now, I am bringing in some goats and sheep this summer to keep on 1 acre of pasture and am in need of livestock guardian dogs to ward off coyotes and cougars around here. My wife will not let me get a third hunting dog but I am allowed livestock guardian dogs... My question is, would it be possible to run a cur type dog or other breed as both a hound dog and a livestock guardian dog? Or does this dog breed really only do well in either the role of a hound dog OR a guardian dog? And if this isn't the case, is there a breed that can both hound rabbits and guard livestock? I ask after doing cursory research and finding in the South, cur dogs were all-around farm dogs and hound dogs. Or, maybe I just need to stick to bird dogs and quit pushing my luck with the wife!

Thank you for any info you can provide! I look forward to hearing your expertise.

ReplyForward

 

[altair]

Livestock guardians aren't so arbitrary, sort of like how if you trained your shih tzu to reliably fetch, you wouldn't call it a retriever. There are certain breeds that meet the criteria. It doesn't mean you can't have property protectors, or farm dogs but to bond with stock, stick close to home, want to stay outside all the time, take down large predators, and act independently is a whole 'nother level they were ingrained to do. And one cur or Catahoula isn't likely to take on a cougar alone and win. With their short coats I'd also doubt their cold-hardiness. It would be risky to entrust weak prey animals to a dog with a high enough prey drive to flush rabbit (prey drive is one thing bred out of good LGDs for obvious reasons).

I know nothing about hunting with dogs-- is it possible to train your current pack on rabbit or Rent a Beagle (borrow a friend's)?

My brother used to hunt snowshoe hare and never had a dog, so another possibility.

 

[Bernie7]

Livestock guardians aren't so arbitrary, sort of like how if you trained your shih tzu to reliably fetch, you wouldn't call it a retriever. There are certain breeds that meet the criteria. It doesn't mean you can't have property protectors, or farm dogs but to bond with stock, stick close to home, want to stay outside all the time, take down large predators, and act independently is a whole 'nother level they were ingrained to do. And one cur or Catahoula isn't likely to take on a cougar alone and win. With their short coats I'd also doubt their cold-hardiness. It would be risky to entrust weak prey animals to a dog with a high enough prey drive to flush rabbit (prey drive is one thing bred out of good LGDs for obvious reasons).

I know nothing about hunting with dogs-- is it possible to train your current pack on rabbit or Rent a Beagle (borrow a friend's)?

My brother used to hunt snowshoe hare and never had a dog, so another possibility.

Thanks for the reply. Regardless of whether the next dogs we get is capable of hunting rabbits or exclusively guarding livestock, we will be sure to be getting a pair to protect our larger livestock. Of course these livestock guardian dogs would live 24/7 outside with their flock. I just was hoping that the potential would be there to work them on rabbits because they are a pain to flush out of thick cover without a dog who hounds.

Regarding training my current Brittany and soon GWP on rabbits, it's possible but delicate. Technically, as certain British and European hunters designate them, they are continental gun dogs, hunt point retrieve breeds. But rabbit is not their specialty compared to gamebirds that hold. It may be that I bite the bullet and just stick with getting some Anatolian Shepherds and make rabbits a second priority when bird hunting.

 

[101pigs]

Thanks for the reply. Regardless of whether the next dogs we get is capable of hunting rabbits or exclusively guarding livestock, we will be sure to be getting a pair to protect our larger livestock. Of course these livestock guardian dogs would live 24/7 outside with their flock. I just was hoping that the potential would be there to work them on rabbits because they are a pain to flush out of thick cover without a dog who hounds.

Regarding training my current Brittany and soon GWP on rabbits, it's possible but delicate. Technically, as certain British and European hunters designate them, they are continental gun dogs, hunt point retrieve breeds. But rabbit is not their specialty compared to gamebirds that hold. It may be that I bite the bullet and just stick with getting some Anatolian Shepherds and make rabbits a second priority when bird hunting.

Forget the Rabbits. If you like Rabbit meat make a trap to catch a few in the winter or hunt with someone that has Rabbit Dog. I have 2 stock Dogs that live with the animals. One Collie that is a good watch Dog.

 

[101pigs]

Forget the Rabbits. If you like Rabbit meat make a trap to catch a few in the winter or hunt with someone that has Rabbit Dog. I have 2 stock Dogs that live with the animals. One Collie that is a good watch Dog.

I have a few big White Rabbits i raise for meat. I do like Rabbit meat. I also set traps in the winter for wild Rabbits.

 

[Alice In TX/MO]

Direct answer:
Nope. All you get is dogs who don’t know what they are supposed to do.

 

[altair]

I know farming rabbit is different than hunting them, but if you like the taste of meat more than how you got it on your plate, there are some very good setups for raising rabbits. I know one kangal breeder who lets her rabbits free range with her LGDs and they do very well though she doesn't eat her rabbits.

 

[oregon woodsmok]

British bred, gundog trial pedigree, English Springers will hunt both game birds and rabbits. They don't seem to have any trouble learning which is which.

German shorthair and wirehair pointers should be able to hunt both game birds and rabbits.

I think you have a training issue and not a dog breed issue.

 

[Fishindude]

Direct answer:
Nope. All you get is dogs who don’t know what they are supposed to do.

I agree with this.
You need a beagle if you want to run rabbits and I've had a bunch of them over the years. A god rabbit dog is only wired for one thing, running rabbits, and other than that you need to keep them in a kennel or on a chain, otherwise they'll be off running rabbits like they're bred for. I've not seen many good hunting hounds that were really even very good "pets". in addition to hunters.

 

[muleskinner2]

And one cur or Catahoula isn't likely to take on a cougar alone and win.

The only way any dog could take on a cougar and win is if the cougar ran away. I have hunted Mt. lion for years with dogs, no single dog would have any chance in a fight with a lion. LGD's don't attack and kill predators, they almost never even see them. They smell or hear them, then scare them away by barking. The closest thing to a guard/hound dog I know of is a Catahoula. And it would have to be raised with the animals to be guarded. If I were trying this, I would have a pair of Catahoula's. I would let them patrol the property at night, but not actually in the pen with the goats.

 

[Bernie7]

British bred, gundog trial pedigree, English Springers will hunt both game birds and rabbits. They don't seem to have any trouble learning which is which.

German shorthair and wirehair pointers should be able to hunt both game birds and rabbits.

I think you have a training issue and not a dog breed issue.

It's not a training issue. Understand the cover we hunt before passing that judgement.

My Brittany will hunt and staunchly point and retrieve fur and feather all season. The number of pointed porcupines that have ended up in my freezer are testament to that. Any French, German or Wirehaired continental pointing breed should be capable of hunting fur and feather. I know my gundogs and I definitely know how to train them. The matter is where we find and hunt a porcupine is easier to access, flush and kill than where we find and hunt cottontail rabbits running in impenetrable river thickets . My Brittany will staunchly point a rabbit. I'm just weary of having him learn to flush and hound because that's not what he's bred for.. A pointing dog's job is not to bushwhack through impenetrable cover that a flushing or hounding dog was bred for hence my initial question inquiring about curs.

 

[Bernie7]

I agree with this.
You need a beagle if you want to run rabbits and I've had a bunch of them over the years. A god rabbit dog is only wired for one thing, running rabbits, and other than that you need to keep them in a kennel or on a chain, otherwise they'll be off running rabbits like they're bred for. I've not seen many good hunting hounds that were really even very good "pets". in addition to hunters.

That's what I thought. The more I study about curs the more I wonder if the description of them is probably very general and not taking into account that they would specialize in one job: either hunting or livestock guarding. I would love to have a beagle or another hound to hunt behind but sadly in Washington, rabbits are about the only quarry you can legally hound hunt consistently.

 

[Bernie7]

The only way any dog could take on a cougar and win is if the cougar ran away. I have hunted Mt. lion for years with dogs, no single dog would have any chance in a fight with a lion. LGD's don't attack and kill predators, they almost never even see them. They smell or hear them, then scare them away by barking. The closest thing to a guard/hound dog I know of is a Catahoula. And it would have to be raised with the animals to be guarded. If I were trying this, I would have a pair of Catahoula's. I would let them patrol the property at night, but not actually in the pen with the goats.

What about a dogo argentino?

 

[altair]

I have seen pictures of LGDs with coyote and wolf kills, but I agree killing a predator is not super common if their barks, scent and presence doesn't deter.

 

[motdaugrnds]

Well I live on a small piece of land, only 6 acres and have only 2 dogs (Labrador and karakachan) to guard everything on it. The Labrador has a strong prey drive; but Karachan does not! A number of rabbits show up as well as squirls, possums, badgers, foxes, etc. and both dogs will catch and kill these! (My Karakachan prefers to eat the berries off my bushes but will help kill the predictors.) My Labrador will actually hunt the rabbit dens down, dig in and flush them out; then both dogs are in the chase/kill.

I have a small herd of dairy goats and an assortment of fowl (ducks, geese, chickens, guineas) that also free range; and I never have to lock any of them in at night. Both my dogs were TAUGHT not to chase, play with or kill the fowl!

To get your rabbits you need a dog with a strong prey drive. To protect your livestock you need a dog with a strong sense of guard duties. (I had a German Shephard that did a great job protecting everything too; so I believe most dogs can be taught what you want them to know. It is just easier for them if their particular instincts are heavy in the direction you want them to go.)

 

[muleskinner2]

What about a dogo argentino?

Only on You Tube, and even if they survived they would be all torn up. A lion fights with their teeth and all four feet.

 

[muleskinner2]

I have seen pictures of LGDs with coyote and wolf kills, but I agree killing a predator is not super common if their barks, scent and presence doesn't deter.

My male Anatolian would kill coyotes and bring them into the front yard to show off. But I don't think this is common.

 

[todd_xxxx]

What about a dogo argentino?

That nonsense was made up to sell Dogo's. Like muleskinner said, a dog has no chance against a mountain lion.

 

[altair]

The dogo and Rhodesian Ridgebacks, the latter bred to guard against lions, are kept in packs for obvious reasons. Strength in numbers!

 

[JRHill02]

Hello, I live on 20 acres in Washington

We don't have any pasture, only trees. All of our critters are penned and reasonably close to the house. Forest land creates incredible opportunities for predators too. So we have had our share of bear, bobcat, cougar skunk, etc. What I ended up doing was building a perimeter fence with 5' non-climb with 2 rows of barbed wire over the top. Almost 1000 ft. This pretty much ended the predator problem but at no small cost and effort. We did still lose a sheep to a cougar a few years back. A cougar can jump the fence or just climb a tree and hop over.

BTW, we have three Catahoula currs. If only one of them is out the dog can be helpful. If two or all three they go into 'pack' mode and will kill, esp the male. I guess I could've done better in training. But some forewarning: Catahoulas are very smart - too smart almost - and quite stubborn. Training goes on their entire lifetime. BTW, the fence also keeps the dogs in as well and keeps them from hunting in the forest.

The only real problem left is garden raping squirrels and ravens who try to steal piglets.