[HDRider]

G is just doing it quietly.

If I had to describe Xi and the CCP in one word, the word would be diabolical. I am not sure that is the right word for them, but it is the best I can do

 

[GunMonkeyIntl]

My position is easy to understand if one is objective. Instead of believing everything that the media has told us about Russia over the last 30 years, realize there are 2 sides to it. I'm not taking Russia's side, but I am also not taking what the media has told us as truth. I am looking for the truth period.

Look at where Lithuania is and explain why they would suddenly stop trains from carrying goods from Russia? They are one of the least defensible countries in NATO, so they didn't do this from a position of strength. That means someone else is pulling the strings. I am pretty sure it is not NATO or the EU, so is it the Biden administration or someone else like the WEF?

Did you know Russia is stronger economically now than before the war? The ruble is now worth much more than when the war started. Russia still has a market for its oil. The American people are suffering the consequences of the actions of our idiot president and the Russians are doing fine. They have no shortage of food or oil.

So my point of view is based on the reality of what is actually happening, not what we wished was happening. The US DOD and State Dept have admitted they have lied about the war in Ukraine. Ukrainian politicians have admitted they have lied. Ane we know the Russians also lie. So I try to find the facts that stand up to scrutiny and apply logic to the facts to try to understand what is really happening.

BS. There is really no other words for your words than “BS”.

You keep accusing anyone who is anti-Russia of falling for the one-sided media of the west, yet every word you’ve posted on this matter (EVERY SINGLE ONE) has been a direct regurgitation of Russia’s own propaganda. You have no standing from which to lecture ANYBODY else about listening to a one-sided media. Your own parroting just makes you look simple and silly.

And, regardless what facts the media I watch may have gotten wrong and may be getting wrong, the basis fact I hold, for wishing for your side to lose a horrible defeat in all this, stands and is indisputable: Your beloved Commies invaded a sovereign nation, unprovoked, now twice, to try to steal their land for resources and the prestige of your dying Dear Leader.

 

[HDRider]

Commies invaded a sovereign nation

You would think the discussion would end with that.

I purposely did not include your use of "unprovoked". I do think there is some real dispute on that. I do believe TPTB wanted to provoke Putin and have used Ukraine as their patsy. I'll admit the wisdom of it, but I cannot deny the provocation.

 

[MoonRiver]

Just because a serial killer believes he is justified, the killing is still not right.

Bad analogy. I made no comment on whether the killings were justified. My comment was only related to the belief that an action was justified. Absolutely no value judgment in what I said. I leave value judgments to all of you.

 

[MoonRiver]

That is why you stand alone

So you don't agree that Russia believed it was justified in moving against Ukraine?

That's interesting. If they didn't believe it was justified, why did they do it?

 

[GunMonkeyIntl]

You would think the discussion would end with that.

I purposely did not include your use of "unprovoked". I do think there is some real dispute on that. I do believe TPTB wanted to provoke Putin and have used Ukraine as their patsy. I'll admit the wisdom of it, but I cannot deny the provocation.

Provocation is an act with degrees. If your neighbor shoots and kills you, and it was after you shot and killed his wife, one might reasonably say that you provoked him. If your neighbor shoots and kills you because he doesn’t like the way you keep your flowerbeds, then “provoke” would be an inappropriate word.

Moon’s Dear Leader didn’t invade Ukraine because the west attacked him or took anything that was his. One could claim that Moon’s boo invaded Ukraine because he didn’t like west getting friendly with a free nation he saw as belonging to him, but that’s not even the real reason.

The “provocation” is that Moon’s papi is dying, and wanted his legacy to include a rebuilding of the Soviet Empire. He’s using his last years on earth to try to reclaim its slaves, and Moon is swallowing every word of the propaganda he puts out as cover.

If anyone wants to lay a claim of provocation for Moon’s teams adventurism, it belongs to Ronald Regan for racing those commies into bankruptcy in the first place. Putin is just trying to recapture some of what they had to give up when they lost the Cold War.

 

[MoonRiver]

Others disagree

So adding to the cost of oil and the scarcity of grain was a smart thing to do?

 

[HDRider]

So you don't agree that Russia believed it was justified in moving against Ukraine?

That's interesting. If they didn't believe it was justified, why did they do it?

Because Putin believes he was justified, or uses any number of events as a ruse to "justify" his actions does not mean that I believe he was justified, or that he is right in his justification.

It is a simple question of right, or wrong.

You overthink things.

 

[MoonRiver]

BS. There is really no other words for your words than “BS”.

You keep accusing anyone who is anti-Russia of falling for the one-sided media of the west, yet every word you’ve posted on this matter (EVERY SINGLE ONE) has been a direct regurgitation of Russia’s own propaganda. You have no standing from which to lecture ANYBODY else about listening to a one-sided media. Your own parroting just makes you look simple and silly.

And, regardless what facts the media I watch may have gotten wrong and may be getting wrong, the basis fact I hold, for wishing for your side to lose a horrible defeat in all this, stands and is indisputable: Your beloved Commies invaded a sovereign nation, unprovoked, now twice, to try to steal their land for resources and the prestige of your dying Dear Leader.

My side is the American people. Which side is yours?

 

[HDRider]

So adding to the cost of oil and the scarcity of grain was a smart thing to do?

Those are a price that some thought had to be paid.

 

[GunMonkeyIntl]

So you don't agree that Russia believed it was justified in moving against Ukraine?

That's interesting. If they didn't believe it was justified, why did they do it?

Their belief is that Ukraine belonged to them. That’s it. That’s all the justification they have.

You’ve spend hundreds of words telling us all about buffer zones and land bridges and election meddling, and NONE of it adds up. Every attempt you’ve made to justify it was easily demonstrated as a logical fallacy.

Putin wanted Ukraine. When he couldn’t have it, he settled for its Black Sea Oil. Then, when he tried again, he couldn’t quite take it all, so now he’s trying to take half of it. If he gets that, he’ll try again to take the rest of it.

Their “justification” is that they think it rightfully belongs to them, so what they think doesn’t matter.

You’re taking up for slave masters, and it is shameful.

 

[GunMonkeyIntl]

My side is the American people. Which side is yours?

Regurgitate some more Russian propaganda for us, won’t you?

 

[MoonRiver]

Because Putin believes he was justified, or uses any number of events as a ruse to "justify" his actions does not mean that I believe he was justified, or that he is right in his justification.

It is a simple question of right, or wrong.

You overthink things.

You are changing what I said. I never made any claim to right or wrong. My statement (13 words) is very specific and very clear. You are the one reading something into it.

 

[HDRider]

Provocation is an act with degrees.

And very subjective. Overreaction is common.

Beyond that, just being able to claim provocation gives Putin a defense. Not a good defense, but a defense nonetheless.

 

[HDRider]

My side is the American people. Which side is yours?

That is weak. Just using HT as your sample, you stand alone.

 

[MoonRiver]

Their belief is that Ukraine belonged to them. That’s it. That’s all the justification they have.

You’ve spend hundreds of words telling us all about buffer zones and land bridges and election meddling, and NONE of it adds up. Every attempt you’ve made to justify it was easily demonstrated as a logical fallacy.

Putin wanted Ukraine. When he couldn’t have it, he settled for its Black Sea Oil. Then, when he tried again, he couldn’t quite take it all, so now he’s trying to take half of it. If he gets that, he’ll try again to take the rest of it.

Their “justification” is that they think it rightfully belongs to them, so what they think doesn’t matter.

You’re taking up for slave masters, and it is shameful.

You are making things up that are not facts, but your opinion.

 

[HDRider]

You are changing what I said. I never made any claim to right or wrong. My statement (13 words) is very specific and very clear. You are the one reading something into it.

Everything comes down to "right or wrong" for me. Analysis for the sake of analysis is nothing but mental masturbation.

Like everyone else, I may tilt at windmills from time to time. This ain't one of them.

 

[GunMonkeyIntl]

You are making things up that are not facts, but your opinion.

Demonstrable fact that runs counter to the RT propaganda you keep repeating.

Commies gotta Commie.

 

[MoonRiver]

That is weak. Just using HT as your sample, you stand alone.

As I have said several times, I don't have a dog in this fight. The American people are suffering in part because of the US-led sanctions against Russia, the escalation of the war based on US military hardware, and the battlefield guidance and leadership of US military and probably the CIA. Russia, Iran, Venezuela, OPEC are all benefiting and N America and Europe are suffering. The sanctions have had the opposite effect from that intended. China and India are happy to biu all the oil Russia can supply.

As I have said several times and no one has refuted, the US made no serious attempt at diplomacy to prevent the war and since the start of the war has sought to escalate, not de-escalate the war. I don't understand why the US government wants this war, but for some reason it does.

 

[MoonRiver]

Demonstrable fact that runs counter to the RT propaganda you keep repeating.

Commies gotta Commie.

I have refrained from replying in kind. A little civility on your part would be appreciated.