Lgd

Discussion in 'Working and Companion Animals' started by Tango, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    My small herd of goats is in need of a guardian. We have coyotes here and 50 acres of range. I would like a short-coated breed and remember seeing one, a Maremma? I think? Can't remember. It is absolutely miserably hot and humid here in the summer and gets to freezing in the winter. I'm in south middle TN. What breeds or cross breeds can you recommend? Also, I see LGD's advertised which have been born and raised with the goats, as opposed to with a family, being new to LGD's I am guessing this is preferable? Am I supposed to leave him or her with the goats all the time? Is one sufficient for a herd that might get to about 15 - 20 eventually (brush control work) or should they have a dog companion? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Rouen

    Rouen Well-Known Member

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  3. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm reading the book, All My Relations, by Susan Chernak McElroy. She purchased an Anatolian male puppy to guard her animals. He was an adorable puppy and grew into a giant white teddy bear of a dog. Unfortuneatly the teddy bear is overprotective and a biter. She had to put up a high fence with two strands of hot wire at the top because people keep wanting to pet the big cuddly pooch, but the big cuddly pooch is too dangerous to have people climb his fence and enter his territory. Be very careful what kind of guard you get, and take the advice of the breeder seriously. Some guardians guard by mere presence and bark, others are aggressive.

    Any dog you get will require basic training.
     
  4. barnbilder

    barnbilder Well-Known Member

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    Here is a site that you might want to check out before investing in a lgd:http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/companimals/guarddogs/guarddogs.htm
    it takes a while to load but it is an interesting read.
    As someone who has dealt with livestock predation issues on a number of different levels, I would reccomend an enclosed night shelter used religiously. If this is not adequate or feasible, maybe some snares set in strategic locations could take care of your problem coyotes. All coyotes are not born knowing how to live off of sheep and goats, they have to learn it. If you do not feel capable there are proffesionals out there who can take care of your problems for a price. If you are opposed to lethal control then maybe a livestock guardian animal could work for you.
    After looking at every possible angle I have come to my own conclusion about coyote predation. They (in the eastern US) are an effective predator of deer, and monetarily they are an even bigger pest! That is hard to sell on someone who lost stock, but IMHO is the truth. That is why I prefer strategic "problem animal" removal.
     
  5. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

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    My understanding of Meremas is that they are more aggressive than Pyrs which IMO can be a bit on the aggressive side. I'm comparing them to Labs though so I'm pretty picky about a dog not showing aggression toward people. Another group to consider might be the Mastiff family: http://www.pets4you.com/mastiff.html
    Again, you'll find breeds in that group that are quite aggressive and some that are not at all. Part of that will also depend on individual lines. Personally, I believe an LGD should be raised in the barn with EXTENSIVE interaction with humans and have some obedience training. These are generally very large dogs and can be a real handful if not trained. http://shahbazinanatolianshepherds.com/ This website has some excellent articles on training/socializing, etc. Barnbilder has great advice about securing animals and removing problem predators. Personally, I go for layers of protection. Good fences, secure buildings and the LGD too.

    P.S. My Pyr is indoors in the air conditioning during the hottest days (a lot this summer) but he is outside around the barns every night. It is a matter though of knowing the dog - some dogs would not do their job at night if they were given access to the house.
     
  6. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    Its been my experience that my females have always been less agressive than my males.Female shepards and Dobies,vrs the males.Females had to be more/less trapped to get them aggresive with people,the males seemed to be more than willing to go looking for a fight with people if provoked.

    IMHO only.Dont know if this is a fact or just my experiences.

    BooBoo
     
  7. marvella

    marvella Well-Known Member

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    tango- you can't beat a great pyrenees for guarding goats. i cannot say enough good things about them. they are escape artists, but if you can keep goats fenced you can fence pyrs. i love mine, and plan to never be without at least one on the place ever again.

    they are a heavy-coated dog, so they need plenty of shade, and a cool creek that they can lay down in and cool off. in the tn summers, it won't hurt a thing to take get them shaved each spring, as some of them tend to mat easily.

    when you get a pup, try to find one that has been raised with goats, and not from someone who keeps them as pets. when you bring him home, you can keep it close for a couple of days so it gets to know you, then strictly keep it out in the barn with the goats. their protective instinct will grow as they grow.

    the one i have now was a stray that was picked up by the local shelter, and had NO experience guarding animals. within a month, he had them all herded up, and minding him, just like he had been out there all his life.

    good luck and let us know!
     
  8. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice and replies. I was reading the first link yesterday and am concerned about Maremmas and barking. The aggression is not a problem for me. I have no neighbors and no one should be on my property anyway. It is posted and perimeter fenced. My own children are grown enough to know to leavemy dogs alone. I don't want a barker however. That is extremely annoying. When my dogs bark I know there is a problem, when a barker barks it might be the grass growing. My interest in the lgd was for coyote deterance. If coyotes will come anyway, there is no point in another mouth or two to feed. won't shoot the coyotes as a first or second option. The goats are locked up at night but from dawn to dusk are out in the fields.Will keep giving this more thought. Marvella a Pyr would have been my first choice but I can't stand the long coats in a field. This is my first summer in TN and my bulldog has been so hot he goes to lie down in the creek a couple of times a day. The goats don't go near the creek- that poor LGD with a long coat would be suffering through this type of weather. Maybe a cross breed guardian??? I wonder if a Mastiff would work?
     
  9. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    You already have horses what about a donkey or even a lama ??
     
  10. barnbilder

    barnbilder Well-Known Member

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    Marcia, (I wanted to repeat that twice more, but you have probably heard that)
    I just checked your profile and your website, and, um, you already have the dog you are looking for. The leopard, and it's kin, have been doing the job you are describing in this country, in extreme heat since long before anyone here heard of a marepyramacallit. Might want to start with a pup and do what you would do with any lgd, and then teach it to do other stuff later, they have the ability! Might want to choose lines carefully, stay away from anything with too much "catch" bred into it. Unfortunately this eliminates a lot of the leopards/catahoulas as most have been exclusively used by hog-hunters for eons. Too much bulldog can be a bad thing in something that does not need it.
     
  11. Shahbazin

    Shahbazin Well-Known Member

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    That's why a lot of people prefer Anatolian Shepherd Dogs, because they have shorter coats & are more heat-adapted. It gets really hot in Turkey (ASD origin), so ASDs are the breed of choice in the American southwest, & in Namibia, Africa.
    Here's a young ASD in summer coat:
    [​IMG]