LGD wont stop biting the goats legs

Discussion in 'Working and Companion Animals' started by kath2003, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

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    Our Blossom is 7 months old, in with our Fainters. Some of them she has respect for, like our big buck, and two of the larger does. But when it comes to the smaller ones, and the kids, she mauls them untill they are exahausted. They stiffen up so its even harder for them to get away.
    She has been on a chain in the pen for 5 months now, and we keep trying to teach her what she can and can't do, and what her job is but she just wants to jump all over us, and the goats.The other thing she started a couple days ago is to stare at the goats and bark at them, ALL DAY LONG! Any ideas or training tricks would be great!
     
  2. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    What breed is she? It doesn't sound like she has guardianship instinctually. Dunnoif being tied up has caused her the excitement. Was she always this way? She should naturally be gentle with them, imo. I'd be scared to let her in with the goats with that behavior. I hope someone with training experience can help you with some advice - seems to me with just the above description that she might not be a good guardian candidate.
     

  3. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

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    She is a Great Pyrenees from TN which we got at 10 weeks old. She was born in a barn with another herd of Fainting goats. She started this behavior about three or four weeks after we got her home. She just wants to play soooo much.
     
  4. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    Kathy, I only have experience with one LGD, my Great Pyr Jazz. She is not at all like Blossom. In fact, other than sniffing everyone's backside and eating the placenta the last birth, she pretty much leaves them alone except to hang out in their midst and follow them or lead them out and back.
     
  5. carly

    carly on winged flight...

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    First of all, having her in a pen and tied is no good. She needs work!!! And lots of it,,,from you or the person who is going to be handling her most of the time.

    Buy her a ball, looks like a big tennis ball, size of basketball. Petsmart has them. It has to be big around enough so she cannot bite it. Remove her from all animals other than her human trainer.

    Teach her commands using the ball as her sheep or herd animal. Send her out, teach her all the herding commands you know and if you don't know them, get her to a handler fast. She is learning bad habits that are difficult to break.

    Throw the ball way out, tell her to fetch and when she gets behind it, command her to "bring it up" and praise praise praise when she does anything you want her to. Start giving her more commands every few days. Make her master the first ones.

    sit
    down
    stay
    lie doon (down)
    walk up
    bring round
    come by

    and many others.......

    You must teach her you are in charge and Alpha lead. As for the biting and nipping, guards will do this. Break tis habit by using a deterrent such as a long training leash when you let her in with the animals, and when she goes for them, give her a sharp correction and a loud "NO!" over and over and when she stops in mid bite, praise her.

    These dogs when not trained require a lot of time and effort as youngsters to learn the ways of doing their jobs. A Border Collie, for instance, cannot be considered properly trained for over a year of age.........even tho he may do everything correctly. You have to have complete control and commands over your dog.
     
  6. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

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    Her job is to stay in the pen and watch over them. She doesn't need to herd them or anything like that. We have a fox and coyote problem around here and she is there to keep them away.
    I was told by the LGD breeder to tie her in there. Great, maybe I shouldn't have then??
     
  7. mberryrfd

    mberryrfd Well-Known Member

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    Every now and then it is OK to tie up the dog but you need to try A long light line on a choke collar and every time sshe nips at the goats give her a quick jerk like the previos post ( remember to wear gloves )
    we dont use the word NO here there are to many kids and the poor dog would be in circles over what she had done. I use knock it off with a growl in my voice

    I dont think i would in to to many fancy commands just the basics
    I have taught our PYR to walk on a leash and sit and so far that is itwe are working on a few more slowly
     
  8. Good Hope

    Good Hope Well-Known Member

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    It sounds to me like your LGD pup thinks the kids and smaller does are playmates and can be rough-housed with; the barking is probably an invitation to play. Is it more high-pitched and "playful-sounding" than a normal bark?

    Playing is fine with another LGD dog, but not with goats (or anything else she may be guarding), and she needs to learn that ASAP. When the behavior first started, what did you do to correct it? What are you trying now? You could try tying a large heavy bucket or container to her collar with a chain or cable (something chew-proof). That should slow her down enough to let the goats get away.

    Also, it really isn't good to have them tied up that long. Tieing is okay at first to get the dog to bond, but that is generally with an adult dog and certainly not for 5 months. A puppy ought to have an escape-proof pen that is away from the goats for time-outs/punishment; when first introduced (although you are long past that now) the same pen can be left in with the goats and allows the pup to see the goats and the goats to see the puppy without the pup being hurt or escaping.

    Just because the parents are working LGD's, doesn't mean that each and every puppy will make a good working dog. It is possible that there will be a couple from a litter that do not have the correct temperament, and maybe your puppy is one of them. It may also be that this behavior (which is normal, to some extent) just wasn't corrected early enough and has escalated.

    Maybe reading this would help you: http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm

    Hope you are successful in correcting this,
    Deena and Sofia
     
  9. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    I had the same problem with one of my Maremmas. A few sessions with a shock collar cured it. I know some think thats "cruel" but a good collar can be adjusted so it just tingles instead of really hurting them. I even tried it on myself first to make sure it didnt hurt her. I dont think she should be tied up at all. That will just make her worse. A 7 month old pup that size just plays rough and needs to learn what is acceptable. But she cant ever learn if shes tied Good luck with her
     
  10. Queen Bee

    Queen Bee Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tie the dog to you belt loops and keep her with you when you are with the animals. Then put her in a kennel(placed where the animals sleep or at the entrance to the barn etc--so she is with the animals but not get to them) when you are not with them. Work your way up to more time with them, you must be relaxed and not be afraid of her or what she will do. IF you become to angry, worried or mad--place her in the kennel until you are comfortable again... Give her the 'leave it' command when she even looks like she wants to play with them. She needs a job and quick, she is bored --boredom can lead to many bad habits--things you will never be able to correct. You are going to have to start from scratch w/ teaching her commands and making her understand they are not toys. Walk her around the fence line several times a day, let her use the bathroom there. Walk her around the animals and in their crowds, again,and again using the "No" command and a sharp jerk to the leash, when she does more than smell.. If she continues, grab her on the neck and make her lie down and hold her there.. Once the animals are 'old-hat' to her she will be camler with them. We had a English Setter (bred to hunt birds), after doing this training with him, I could let him in the chicken house and he would just lay half asleep --there at the door and not bother them.

    LGDs are wonderful but I do not feel you can tie them up and forget them, or even throw them in the pasture and 'bam' they are the perfect animal.You have to be committed to their training and learning to understand you dog.

    Good luck and if you have questions PLEASE contact your breeder...
     
  11. Charleen

    Charleen www.HarperHillFarm.com Supporter

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    kath2003, we are getting a great pyr from a friend. He's been raised with goats, horses & chickens. I've been going to their farm to observe his actions and noticed that he not only guards them, but part of the protecting that he does is to herd them into safe areas.

    A fox had crossed through the pasture and he herded all the chickens back into the barn, then went to herd the goats. He left the horses alone, but his barking brought the horses on alert.