Just feelin' sad

Discussion in 'Goats' started by burfer, Jan 28, 2005.

  1. burfer

    burfer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    NC
    Well, we had our first twins born last evening. They were pre-mature and died!! I was so sad, this was off of our first goat! I hate to say it, she is not very attractive, sort of nappy, but she is special. Anyway, these were her first, is that normal? I know the kids coming early is not "normal", but does that happen to first time moms? :waa:
     
  2. Michael W. Smith

    Michael W. Smith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,029
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2002
    So sorry to hear about your loss. When I was new to goats and my only doe had kids, she had twins. When I found them, one was dead. I wondered if perhaps the wether that was in with her did something to kill it, but since then just figured it just didn't live for whatever reason, because I've never seperated the does and wethers and the kids are always fine. Never had any premature, so can't give any advice on that.

    (((((((( HUGS ))))))))))
     

  3. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

    Messages:
    425
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Location:
    Texas
    There can be several causes of late term abortion. Chlamydiosis is one of them. The abortion disease in sheep and goats is commonly referred to as enzootic or virus abortion. Chlamydial abortion in goats typically occurs in the last 2 months of pregnancy and especially in the last 2 weeks. Sometimes infected kids are delivered at term, either stillborn or alive but weak. The doe is usually not clinically ill, and the placenta is usually not retained. Do you have any of the placental tissue? You could have some tests run on it. Chlamydia psittaci is contagious to humans. During kidding or lambing season, pregnant women assisting with parturitions may become infected with the ruminant strain and abort. An influenza like syndrome also has occurred in men assisting lambing in infected flocks. One should always wear plastic gloves to limit exposure to all uterine fluids and when collecting fetuses or placentas for disposal or diagnostic evaluation. Pregnant women should avoid all contact with the herd during the parturition season. This is only one possible cause of late term abortion and you can only verify this by testing. I thought I would mention this just incase you may be pregnant or have a pregnant person who has come into contact with any uterine fluids. Being butted good and hard by another goat could cause the same thing. There are other things like Leptospirosis, Listeriosis, etc... Were the fetus malformed at all?
     
  4. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    i'm sorry for you. what a disapointment. one reason for abortion not mentioned here is mineral deficit. i don't think this is a normal thing for first time doe's.
    i also found this on goatword.com

    The goat is more susceptible to abortion than other species of domestic livestock. Most of the work relating to abortion in goats has been with the Angora (Van Heerden, 1963; Van Rensburg, 1971; Shelton and Groff, 1974), in which the problem is more severe. Infectious diseases such as brucellosis are also capable of causing abortion in goats (Alton, 1973). The fact that the goat is a corpus luteum-dependent species predisposes the animal to abort whenever there is an interference with a functional corpus luteum (Wentzel et al., 1975). A low level of abortion is common with the Angora under normal production conditions, but catastrophic losses sometimes occur. Most abortions occur in response to stress between 90 and 110 days of gestation. Undernutrition during the critical stage of rapid fetal development and competition for nutrients between fetal and maternal organisms appear to be one explanation. The incidence of abortion is reduced in flocks in which replacement does are fed for proper size and development prior to the first breeding season and during gestation (Shelton and Stewart, 1973).

    A series of studies from South Africa appears to provide a physiological explanation for the type of abortion observed in that country with the Angora. Parturition, either at or prior to term, is normally initiated by elevated corticosteroids of fetal or maternal origin (Wentzel and Roelofse, 1975). Two types of abortion have been identified in the Angora. One is known as stress abortion, which is triggered by low maternal blood glucose (Wentzel et al., 1976). This type is normally induced by poor nutritional condition of the doe (Wentzel et al., 1974), but other stress factors are also involved. Stress abortion is identified by the expulsion of a live or fresh fetus. Low maternal glucose appears to trigger hyperactivity of the fetal adrenal. The cause of abortion in the 90-110 days of pregnancy is apparently explained by the fetal adrenal gland's producing elevated levels of estrogen precursors (Wentzel et al., 1976), and estrogens are known to be potent abortifacients (Wentzel et al., 1975). After 110 days the fetal adrenal is more mature and produces corticosteroids, which are slower acting or less potent abortifacients.

    A second type of abortion is that by the habitual aborter. These goats can be identified by a history of abortion, and by the expulsion of a dead edematous or autolyzed fetus. This type of abortion apparently results from maternal hyperadrenalism. Both types of abortion may be triggered by undernutrition resulting in low blood glucose. Initial or stress abortions can be almost totally prevented by adequate nutrition and the elimination of stress.
    susanne
     
  5. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,817
    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    North of Houston TX
    It's a huge red flag for you when the first doe of the year kids early with dead kids. Now if you purchased her bred, it's not that big of deal, but if you bred her than you have some options. First you can wait until the next doe kids that was bred by the same buck she was, and hope for the best, but if she aborts you do have chlamydia going through your herd, it is sexually transmitted, and also transmitted to you and other goats handling the dead kids and especially the placenta. Or you can go to the feed store and start everyone on Tetracycline or Areomyacin, it comes as a calf crumble and you feed this over the grain the does get.

    The only silver lining is that all the does who kid after this abortion storm are immune. A warning flag that you may have an abortion storm from chlymydia coming is if you have pinkeye in the herd before breeding that hangs on longer than normal, especially when it comes with nasty noses, not sick goats just punky looking.

    The buck would need the crumbles, but honestly since he is spreading this I would put him on shots.

    And just for my benefit, do you have cats having kittens in your barn or hay barn? Vicki
     
  6. eggladyj

    eggladyj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I'm really curious now, what is the conection between the pink eye and the other?

    I've been raising goats for about 3 years now and have not had any of these problems, thankfully.....yet.

    Jeannine
     
  7. burfer

    burfer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    NC



    No cats with kittens, thank gosh we have had all of them fixed. This is the buck's first breeding, don't know if this would have anything to do with it or not. No pinkeye either! Thanks for your suggestions though!

    burfer
     
  8. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,817
    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    North of Houston TX
    Most pinkeye in goats is caused by mycoplasma, not the same thing that cattle get. But some pinkeye in goats is caused by chlamydia, it hangs on longer, seems to go through the herd slower and some goats catch it several times, relapse before it completely dissapears. It's sort of a physical sign of a disease in the goat. The buck either catches this on his first breeding from a doe who has it, or comes to your farm with it via his dam. Bucks I purchase even infant ones are put on a course of tetracycline before breeding my clean does. Bucks who I lease come home and the end of breeding season, to a round of tetracycline before they breed my clean does. Obviously it would be very expensive for a breeder to lose not only there whole kid crop but the milk, since most does who abort early will milk, but certainly not up to what they are projected to. Vicki