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I just met someone who says that she gives her dogs Ivomec once a month for heartworm instead of the regular stuff. She says she gets them tested by her vet to make sure they don't have any before she starts dosing them. She measures the Ivomec in a syinge and gives it to them in food.

I was wondering if some of the vets on here had an opinion on this before I ask my vet.

Thanks.

JH
 

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I'm not a vet, but ...

Ivomec or Ivermectin or any product with those ingredients (including Heartgard) must ever be given to collies, German Shepherds or other herding breed doggies --- I don't remember the full list.

If you have a mixed dog (a mutt -!!), be VERY careful about using it, as collies and aussies and GSHs are so often part of the *formula* :rolleyes: :D in a mixed breed dog.

A lot of people have used it with success, despite these qualifications. just be careful!!



JHinCA said:
I just met someone who says that she gives her dogs Ivomec once a month for heartworm instead of the regular stuff. She says she gets them tested by her vet to make sure they don't have any before she starts dosing them. She measures the Ivomec in a syinge and gives it to them in food.

I was wondering if some of the vets on here had an opinion on this before I ask my vet.

Thanks.

JH
:rolleyes:
 

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winding down
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::::::::::::Ivomec or Ivermectin or any product with those ingredients (including Heartgard) must ever be given to collies, German Shepherds or other herding breed doggies --- I don't remember the full list.:::::::::

Grrrrl's finger slipped in there :eek: , because she meant Never, not ever
Add than N in there. It'll even be gramatically correct, too! :haha:

But, she's right. :worship:

Meg :)
 

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:eek: Yoikes!!

I need a new keyboard! Badly!

Yea, NEVER give it to the herding breeds!

Also, if you happen to meet someone who says *well, I have a German Shepherd and I give her Ivomec and she's just fine* DON'T LISTEN!!

I don't know what the deal is for all the herding dogs -- but know for some of them, it has to do with a mutation that SOME have.

Problem is, you don't know if your has it. And the consequences are pretty bad if they do.

So just say ... no! to Ivomec for herding breed doggies.
 

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I have successfully given it to beagles, a fox terrier, and two mutts.

Don't use it on cats. :waa:
 

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Rose, it did not harm the cat that hangs around here. How much did you give the cat and how did you apply it?
 

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I guess I was lucky then. I had a litter of Aussies with sarcoptic mange. I gave them Ivermectin every day along with Benadryl so they wouldn't scratch and I completely healed them. They were 100% cured and beautiful. I had the vet give them the final once over and finish up their shots and I sold them and made a profit. But after yalls advice, I won't try it again.
 

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It's Aussies and Collie-related breeds. (Rough & smooth collies, beardies, farm collies, etc) You're probably okay with GSDs, but some folks won't give it to corgis as Cardigans were probably crossed with smooths at some point in the 17th century. (I'm not one of them, my guys are fine with it.)

There's a DNA test to check and see if they are sensitive to it now, I believe through VetGen.
 

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Actually, you don't want to give it to German Shepherds.

I don't know if GSD is German Shepherd because I always say GSH :haha: --- but I do know German Shepherds have a mutation that causes like some kind of huge auto-immune response to Ivomec which can lead to neurological stuff which can cripple them. It's some kind of weird German Shepherd thing. But the other ones (aussies, collies) have something else going on which makes giving them Ivomec a very bad idea.

In any case, I just wanted to emphasize that.
 
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Unregistered Vet here (yeah, I know, I'l' register one of these days...)

Yes--Ivermectin is safe for ALL breeds of dogs--including Collies etc. They CAN be sensitive to it, and used improperly, it can cause toxicity. That said, it's the dose that counts. The dose of Ivermectin in Heartgard is very low. Most people that dose at home use a MUCH higher dose of Ivermectin than necessary to control heartworm. I breed German Shepherds--there is absolutely no evidence that they are a breed that is sensitive to Ivermectin--only Collies, Shelties, Aussies...

I cannot give a dose for Ivermectin (giving vet advice online without a doctor/client relationship is illegal). I have used oral Ivermectin (the liquid horse wormer) for heartworm control in the past. Used correctly, it is as safe as Heartgard. Used incorrectly, you could kill your dog. I use ProHeart6 now--works GREAT!

Ivermectin is safe for cats too--one of the old fashioned treatments for ear mites (again, at the proper dose).

This discussion has come up before, and lots of misinformation was thrown around. I suggest getting the correct dose fro your vet.

Vet in WI
 

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I hate disagreeing with a vet. But I have to here.

The information I received about German Shepherds was from someone who does medical research on dogs. It is fairly well supported in the literature.

I did a quick Google on the subject and came up with this:

Click here!

Frequency of the mutant MDR1 allele associated with ivermectin sensitivity in a sample population of collies from the northwestern United States.

Mealey KL, Bentjen SA, Waiting DK. Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, Washington State University, Pullman 99164-6610, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the frequency of the MDR1 gene mutation (polymorphism) associated with ivermectin sensitivity in a sample population of Collies in Washington and Idaho.

>snip<

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: A high percentage of a sample population of Collies in Washington and Idaho are affected or carriers of the mutant MDR1 allele associated with ivermectin sensitivity. A similar frequency of this mutation may be detected in dogs from other geographic areas. Pharmacologic treatment with ivermectin, loperamide, vincristine, and other drugs that are substrates of P-glycoprotein, the MDR1 gene product, may result in neurologic toxicosis in a high percentage of Collies.
There are similar results for GSHs.

In short, it's your dog. But if it were mine, I simply wouldn't chance it.
 
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countrygrrrl said:
I hate disagreeing with a vet. But I have to here.

The information I received about German Shepherds was from someone who does medical research on dogs. It is fairly well supported in the literature.

I did a quick Google on the subject and came up with this:

Click here!



There are similar results for GSHs.

In short, it's your dog. But if it were mine, I simply wouldn't chance it.
Countrygrrl, I forwarded this to a few GSD people I know (two in the US and one in Germany) and NONE Of them had ever heard of it. Two of them think it's alarmist baloney. :D They've been using heartgard safely for years.

Cait
 

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Well, that's their choice.

As it's my choice to think there's something to it, especially as problems have cropped up.

In any case, I'm not willing to get into a fight about it. The original info I received did come from someone who does medical research on dogs and is supported in the lit. And there are non-ivermectin alternatives out there. I stand by what I said, I trust the original info I was given on this and your friends are welcome to call it alarmist BS. :)
 

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From a post I made back in June regarding the same info on IVOMEC and dog worming in general:
*******************

Fecal check w/Vet is usually under $10 (If you only take the sample to drop off).

Droncit.. a tab from the vet is about $3.50 per pill. It is dosed by weight, by vet. Droncit is for tape worms.

Strongid-T is for the rest of the worms other than tapes and heart. It is a yellow liquid. Just ask vet for it. A bottle will last a long time and is probably only about $12. Need not refrigerate. Can even give to puppies at 2/4/6 wks.

Lastly... heartworms... (and all other worms except tapes) are treated monthly w/Ivomec. THIS IS NOT VET REcOMMENED, however. You must be CAREFUL about dosage per weight as this is for cattle. Most Tractor Supply stores have it.. around $40 for a bottle to last a lifetime.. (maybe several!) HEARTWORM TEST MUST BE CLEAR to use for PREVENTATIVE.. DO NOT TRY TO GET RID OF HEARTWORMS IF DETECTED BY TEST.. let vet. (They can now do it w/a couple of pills and an overnight stay)

Okay.. hope this helps.
*******************

Update: My bottle says 1ML per 110 lbs body weight. I have broken this down to enable dosing my Chihuahuas!!! (I remove w/syringe from bottle, then transver to another syringe w/o needle to give orally.) We're talking UNITS of a CC here, folks, so it's NOT MUCH at all... nearly microscopic doses!! Be careful... I'm not a vet, but I used to work for a few.. AND I have done this for years with Jack Russells, Chihuahuas, Pekingese, Great Pyrenese, and Yes,,, a couple of German Shepherds... but they WERE of unknown origins..so maybe not so 'frail' and did just fine! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all the responses. Our dog is a mutt, probably Rhodesian Ridgeback with possibly some German Shepherd, possibly some yellow lab.

I will check with my vet on a dosage for him.
 

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I have successfully used ivomec on a variety of bulldogs breeds for years. Ivomec also covers round, hook, and whip worm, but not tapeworm. as far as breed danger, southerngurl is correct but here is what you NEED to know.

dosage is as follows .10 cc per 40 lbs. of body weight. I usually squirt it on a piece of bread and add to food.

Over dosing wont cause immediate problem if your breed is nbot an at risk breed, but the long term effects of continual overdose is liver and or kidney failure.
 

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We use 1 % ivermectin for our 3 English Mastiffs and our Black Lab. The dosage we give is as follows: Mix 1 part ivermectin to 5 parts of Propylene Glycol and then give .10 cc (1/10th) per 10 lbs of dog. This is easiest to measure if you use an insulin syringe. We too squirt it on bread and the dogs gobble it down. The propylene glycol is sweet and hides the bitter ivermectin taste. Our vet approves other than for the fact that they don't get the money for the extremely overpriced pills they sell - or the $7.50 they now charge to write a prescription so you can order it online. The active ingredient in Heartguard is ivermectin - I think the rest is just a dog treat. I know collies, shelties, australian shepards and other collie type breeds can have a problem, but never heard of the german shepards being sensitive. Our dogs are tested yearly for heartworm and we have never had a problem even though we have an overabundance of mosquitos here. I use the ivermectin for our 6 goats and 3 horses too (for intestinal worms), and the bottle expires long before I can use it. This saves us a considerable amount of money every year. If we used Heartguard for our dogs (approx 650 lbs of dogs) it would cost us somewhere between $50 and $75 per month. Now we spend approximately $30 for the ivermectin, another $10 for a gallon of propylene glycol (going on 5 years now and still 3/4 full) and are good for about 2 years.
 

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Not for collies, nor the other collie breeds such as BORDER COLLIE, Austrailian sheperds, shetland sheepdogs etc.. your vet can advice you more.
 
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Unregistered vet again--
Countrygrrrl: Yes, I have read that article. PubMed is a reliable source. I am in research right now, and PubMed comes in handy sometimes! Note that it states COLLIES--not German Shepherds. They are not related. GSD was developed by Max Von Stephanitz in Germany. They are working breeds--not necessarily herding breeds. Perhaps that is where the confusion comes into play. I also did a Google search on Ivermectin toxicosis in GSD--didn't find any reliable information. Please post it here if you have an article addressing German Shepherds specifically. Since I raise and train around 50 puppies a year, I am very interested to know if I have used something that would harm them.

I did state that Ivermectin--used improperly--can cause toxicity problems in Collies, Shelties... The doses Heartgard uses are VERY low. I remember when HG first came out and the neurological problems associated with Collies/Collie-type dogs. It was quite a scare. The toxocity problems are what prompted the research involving Collies, which then pinpointed the exact problem with Collies/collie-type dogs.

As an aside--my Collie mix ate 2 boxes (12 pills each) of Heartgard when she was about a year old. She just barely had reached the toxic level of Ivermectin! Expensive, but safe for the dog!

Again, my $.02
Vet in WI
 
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