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Is Ray Rice Guilty of Domestic Violence?

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SM Entrepreneuraholic
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I'm having trouble understanding how this is domestic violence. Please enlighten me.
 

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I can't say without knowing WHY he hit her. I've never hit a woman in my life but I have seen women behave in such a way they really deserved to be smacked by someone. I haven't seen one news show about this that mentioned women also assault men quite frequently. Men can be jerks but women can too. Why should a man tolerate something from a woman that he wouldn't tolerate from a man? Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.
 

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I can't say without knowing WHY he hit her. I've never hit a woman in my life but I have seen women behave in such a way they really deserved to be smacked by someone. I haven't seen one news show about this that mentioned women also assault men quite frequently. Men can be jerks but women can too. Why should a man tolerate something from a woman that he wouldn't tolerate from a man? Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.

Because I feel I deserve equal pay for equal work does not mean I feel I deserve to be knocked unconscious by someone who claims to love me enough to want to marry me.
 

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The Prairie Homemaker
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I don't know.
It looks to me like mutual combat.
Normally I would say a man should not hit a woman.
However some women are an equal match.
 
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I don't know.
It looks to me like mutual combat.
Normally I would say a man should not hit a woman.
However some women are an equal match.
In this country most times the winner of a fight is charged with DV :hobbyhors He didn't grab her and start whispering sweet nothings in her ear to calm her down .:nono::nono: He cold cocked her :huh:
 

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One of, if not the worst, woopins I ever took was from a GIRL. Sixth grade, she was bent out of shape because my kickball team was well.... Kick...

Old Man Butterworth seen Rachael a floggin' on me, I in defensive mode. He grabbed her off, thank goodness, before it ruined my good looks. I sailed through that year, and many there after.

I knew the right thing to do, even in the sixth grade.
 

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Either the sexes are equal or they aren't.
If he hit a man the way he hit her, it would be an assault/battery just the same...just wouldn't be "domestic violence." That little distinction is questionable. I don't think it should matter if you're in a relationship with the victim or not. That doesn't make it any worse or better.
 

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Video is on this site:
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/0...hen-fiancee-in-new-video-from-tmz-106886.html
He hits her in the face just after the elevator door closes then backs away. She moves toward him and he hits her in the face again, this time knocks her out. She is still holding something (purse?) in her right hand. If she had moved to hit him she would have dropped the object in her hand.
But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?
 

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If he hit a man the way he hit her, it would be an assault/battery just the same...just wouldn't be "domestic violence." That little distinction is questionable. I don't think it should matter if you're in a relationship with the victim or not. That doesn't make it any worse or better.
Good point. Why the domestic violence label in the first place? If you hit someone, you should be charged with assault and go to trial to try and prove you had a valid reason like self defense. If I go into a bar and am a jerk, there is a high probability someone will put me in my place. Why should the same not apply to a couple in a relationship?
 

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I think the reason that the O.P. questions whether it "qualifies"
as domestic violence-vs-assault, is that neither party were
married to the other at the time of the alleged attack.

It should be noted, that MOST states however, cover this
little problem, if there is a living together situation present.....
in which case, it generally falls under the domestic violence statute.

Since I don't keep track of most sports figures and certainly don't
pay attention to how they keep house, I didn't feel qualified to
partake in this poll. Granted I could have voted: I don't know,
but that didn't quite fit the category of: I don't care.

If she's stupid enough to marry him AFTER what he did to her.....
then they certainly deserve each other. Why inflict that misery on the rest of us?
 

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But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator?
Does it really matter what she did before they got on the elevator? Is there any reason ever to hit a person you supposedly love? If she did something so horribly vile that she deserved to be punched in the face, why did HE go through with the wedding?

Why did she? He's got money, well, he had money. Some people don't care about anything else.

As for no other reports of domestic violence by his former girlfriends, maybe they were smarter and got out of the relationship.
 

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But we still don't know why he hit her. What did she do before they got on the elevator? I've seen no reports of him hitting former girlfriends. Why did she marry him the next day?
Why does it matter? No one should do what he did. Period. Knock her out? How can a person even think he maybe in the right to do what he did.
 

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If I go into a bar and am a jerk, there is a high probability someone will put me in my place. Why should the same not apply to a couple in a relationship?
Depends on what you mean by being a jerk. My idea of someone being a jerk might make me WANT to punch them, but it wouldn't make it legally justified for me to ACTUALLY punch them, nor socially acceptable in most circumstances. If they are doing more than being a jerk and actually presenting a threat to me or someone else, that's another story.
 

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In my state DV means there was a sexual relationship at some point or that the people involved have children in common. It is a misdemeanor if there is no visible injury and a felony with any visible injury. This was definitely a felony case from what I saw.

Just getting arrested for DV in my state means you will never own a firearm again and will be ineligible for state licenses in childcare, law enforcement, and nursing I believe.

DV laws can be some of the hardest to enforce because often with no injury visible it is a "he said she said" scenario. Because of this some people have learned that when they can no longer deal with a partner a quick phone call and a false accusation will lead to an immediate mandatory arrest. Officers no longer have discretion and must arrest on any complaint.

What I saw on the video was felony assault with intent to cause great bodily injury, Felony DV with injury, felony kidnapping with the intent to cause further bodily injury, And failure to report a crime.

This guy should not have done what he did, period. However, we live in a society that allows personal liberty. She forgave him and she accepted his amends whatever they were. He was dealt with criminally and from what we know he is abiding by the terms of the courts decisions.

For the NFL to suddenly change the penalty after the tape surfaced made it look like they were playing catch up. Why don't players who commit felonies get ejected from the sport forever. Their names should never be mentioned again in any context. They should disappear and their million dollar hissy fits might get curtailed just a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Here's why I asked (in random order):

  • I hate special victim laws. Either it is a crime to hit someone or it isn't.
  • If this was 2 guys out drinking together, it would not be DV
  • It was adjudicated and he was not charged with DV
  • Is there ever a case when a man is justified in hitting a woman? (I think yes, but only in self defense or extreme provocation)
  • We don't know what her part was
  • I did watch the video and couldn't see clearly who had done what
  • I thought domestic violence was a pattern of violence
The last point is the key point that bothers me. (I think some states have changed the definition so it is dv at the 1st occurrence). If this is the first and only time he has hit her, I question whether it meets the definition of domestic violence.

I think, although I'm not sure, that the idea behind domestic violence is that the woman is in a permanent relationship, usually marriage, in which she feels trapped and unable to leave the relationship even under the threat of violence. That doesn't appear to be the case here. There was nothing forcing Janay to remain in this relationship - not marriage, not children, etc.

Rice's wife, a source said, made a moving and apparently convincing case to Goodell ... that the incident in the hotel elevator was a one-time event, and nothing physical had happened in their relationship before or since. more
I definitely think it is criminal and the law dropped the ball, but I'm still not convinced this is domestic violence. I think calling it dv is most likely agenda driven and is actually being used to generate an attack on football.

Who gains by defining this as domestic violence as opposed to aggravated assault, which is what the charge was? Does Janay? Does society as a whole? Do women in general? Or maybe a group like NOW?
 
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