Is CAE shed in urine?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Jillis, Sep 12, 2006.

  1. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

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    This may be a silly question.

    The goat vet whose health seminar I attended stated that by far, like in over 95% of cases, CAE is acquired through the dam's milk.

    He said he wouldn't say it NEVER was transmitted through breeding, but that is was extremely unlikely. This is a vet who was raised on a goat farm and specializes in goats.

    Today I was observing my goats, and the ND buck of course does nothing but patrol the doe's fence and flirt with them. One 7 month old doe stood in front of him at the fence with her back to him and urinated. He promptly stuck his nose in the pee and also seemed to lick some up into his mouth! Then he made that face where the bucks stick their head up and pull their lips back from their teeth as if to say, "Ewwwww!". Of course, it could mean the opposite to a goat.

    That got me thinking. Could a buck get CAE or any other disease from tasting the pee of the doe? Not that I suspect anything of the kind in my herd, but it did make me wonder...
     
  2. dkdairygoats

    dkdairygoats Well-Known Member

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    Urine should be sterile unless the animal has a bladder infection. There are very few things that will transfer through urine, leptospirosis being one of them. To the best of my knowledge, CAE does not spread through urine.
     

  3. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    jillis the only silly question would be the one you have in your mind and never ask :)
    cae is transmitted trough white blood cells, which means protein. outsite the body the virus implote or explode depending on the enviroment very fast. if a doe has a bladder infection and the buck hold his nose directly on her vagina to lick the body fluid than yes he can get an infection. but i don't know if that ever happened, it is not very likely that a buck gets cae fror breeding the cae doe if he is on a leash (hand breeding)
    colostrum and milk is the way it is transmitted, keeping goats in over crowded condition can also lead to infection.
     
  4. valhalladad

    valhalladad Active Member

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    I must disagree with Susanne on a point. The research I have read says that the virus can live outside the host for up to 21-23 days. Also most infections do come from milk, but cross infection is very possible. Case in point, I allowed three does to come to my herd many years ago. They were positive and successfully infected nearly my entire herd after a period of time. I had started testing semi-annually and ended culling 28 infected goats. From my original herd I had three does left which were kept isolated in a seperate area. It took two years for all of the culled goats to test positive. I continued to test for another 8 years without anything but negative results. Of coarse no goats that were not tested were allowed near my herd. Hand breeding only should be used when working even with tested goats while breeding if you want to be sure you don't spread CAE. My bucks were kept in areas about 30 or 40 feet away from my does area. For what it is worth semen from positive buck can't be exported so there must be a possibility of infection through breeding though I personnally think it is very low with hand breeding. One other point that should be considered is that the CAE virus is in the same family of viruses as the human virus that causes HIV. How is this virus passed???
     
  5. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    what a disaster that had to be for you.
    yes the cae virus is the same family as the hiv in human. and this virus is passed the same way, through white blood cells that occur in body fluids. and if enough body fluids like milk or blood is present outside the body, i agree they can live this long you said. if the fluid drys the virus die. how long does it take until a drop of blood is dried?
    i remember very well the hysterie about aids and those poor humans where badly treated because nobody wanted to touch them. look what they know today.
    there is alot of info about cae on the internet. some is correct and some is false. for me the best way to find out what is correct and what not was to call different labs and asked. maybe you can do that too :rolleyes:
     
  6. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for your information. I am learning a lot!
     
  7. valhalladad

    valhalladad Active Member

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    Susanne
    For information. I studied this virus for about 5 years. Most of my information comes from different goat conferences we had in the early 90's. A very good source is Goat Medicine by DR. Mary Smith who teaches at Cornell. She has always been at the goat outing in NY that is come up soon. Another very good source is the research papers written by DR. Joan Rowe of USC Davis. I have only listened to her once, but it was very worthwhile. Don't feel to bad for me. It was in the early 90's and I started by setting up a seperate goat area, took all the kids at birth and hand fed them with a full CAE provention program. I only had one kid test either inconclusive or suspect once I started. I was not a commercial dairy and actually maintained nearly the same number of milkers and production during this period. The only new goat was a new buck which I needed anyway. I am now pretty much retired and stopped raising goats a couple of years ago. Every now and then I still have the desire to pass on a little of my experiences. For this area I was one of the bigger breeders. I guess I had 26 milkers and would raise over 50 kids a year. Best of luck to all the newer people. We had a lot of fun and a little sorrow at times, but it seemed worth it at the time. As a final note if you have CAE get rid of it. I know a lot of breeders that refused to admit it is a problem and it isn't pretty when you see the animal in the final stages and there isn't anything a vet can do but put the goats down.
     
  8. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    thank you very much valhalladad. i appreciate your input. :)