Iodine into udder with mastitis

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Caprice Acres, Nov 17, 2005.

  1. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    I think my vet is wrong. She said to use a cannula to put 7% iodine into the half with mastitis. I think that this would be WAY too painful. How fast does the product Tomorrow work? How many times would it need to be put in?
     
  2. Teacupliz

    Teacupliz Well-Known Member

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    When had a goat with a mild case we used today for 3 treatments and LA200 for three treatments. Keep the udder clean. Milk out often and massage allot. Warm compresses and some use vix.
     

  3. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    do NOT put iodine into the udder. You can infuse with a cephalexin drug. Give Nuflor 6cc/100# on day one, and 3cc/100# for 3 more days. Also give penicillin 10cc sub q for 4 days. I also give polyserum 10cc sub q on the first day. You can take an old sock and fill it with whole corn. Heat in the microwave for a few and lay it on her udder. Massage and milk as you go.
     
  4. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    The sock thing works great with rice too.
     
  5. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is this a dairy goat? Cause I'd be afraid to EVER use the milk again after putting iodine in. yuck. I've never heard of that. "Tomorrow" is only used for dry does. If she is currently milking, you would use "Today". I believe it's a three day course, but the instructions are on the box. Of course, be sure to use the alcohol wipes and do it very clean.
    mary
     
  6. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    She is a dry pygmy. I noticed it last week, and vet said 5cc pennecillin daily and call her in a week. first time i noticed it it was clear with white chunks, then I gave the pennecillin for I think 2 days, and it turned into a lump, not liquid, and hard. then ppl on this forum said to massage and since I started doing that the liquid has turned clear orange red, like there was blood in it so I don't think Ill massage anymore. the corn in a sock doesn't stay on, her udder is too small. There is very little liquid in the lump, i think the area is just swollen. I think it is clearing up, the lump is going away daily, and barely any liquid. I think when I was massaging it it caused the blood vesscles to bleed in there, the inside was already damaged. The vet's wife is actually the one that said Iodine in there, and I am NOT going to do that. I would like to milk her eventually, and I think the pain from getting iodine in there would be SOOO painful, and ruin her from milking. and everytime she moved it would move around in her udder and keep being painful. Is Tomorrow painful? I can understand a little pain, but to much is not accepable. What are the other ways to treat? The vet said she may not produce milk in that side again.....

    Well i don't know how to do a sub q shot on a goat, the bottle of pennecillin says IM anyways, and she has ben on it for a week now. Tried subq once, did it exactly like I gave my cat his vaccines : tented over the shoulder and injected. Obviously I screwed it up, because both goats i gave the shot to had a lump for months, you can feel it still on both even though it is tiny now, and one lost the hair over the lump. The goat's back legs are totally sore from daily IM shots. :(
    I hate it when goats get sick! Polyserum? What? I have never had this problem, I need step by step info! Will a cannula fit into the teat of a pygmy? they are teeny openings, and I don't really want to take her to the vet, because then they would want to put the iodine in and I don't want them to do that, exc.
     
  7. arm

    arm New Member

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    I was on this site looking for meat rabbit info and I ran into this thread. I'm a large animal vet (23+ years) with quite a bit of dairy experience so I thought I'd chime in. I'm in a hurry--I've got to drive a kid to a party, so I'll throw out some info haphazzard.

    The only reason to use 7% iodine (tincure I assume) would be to chemically destroy the "quarter" after determining that the mastitis has rendered the gland non-functional. I've had better luck with copper sulphate and silver nitrate for this purpose, but they are all pretty irratating. Besisdes, iodine kills bacteria by denaturing proteins so it is inneffective in a high protein environment (ie the mammary gland) as it is rapidly inactivated.

    Your description of the udder (hard lump) sounds like there is probably significant damage to the gland. I would not be surprised if you have very diminished producion form this "quarter" in subsequent lactations.

    Today/Cephalac is a good tube, in fact nearly all common mastitis isolates are sensitive to the active ingredient (cephapirin). That means the drug readily kills the bacteria in the laboratory. In the udder things are more complicated. Achieving and maintaining effective concentrations of drug at the site of infection can be very difficult in the face of inflamation, white blood cells, caesin clots, etc. The skinny: just 'cause it works in the lab doesn't mean it will work in the goat!

    Nuflor is a good suggestion for mastitis. It gets pretty good levels in the milk after systemic dosing. Penicillin only gets ~10% the level in the milk as in the serum so is not so good for mastitis. It can be infused didrectly into the udder however with good results on penicillin sensitive organisms.

    Doses on the antibiotic bottle usually relate to milk/slaughter withdrawl times and not to safety. The suggestion to use 10cc penicillin subq. per 100 pounds body weight is excellent and will yeild high blood levels for 24 hrs.(IM requires 2x/day dosing due to more rapid absorbtion). This is ten times the bottle dose of penicillin but is still very safe, only the milk is no longer residue free at 48 hours.

    Okay, I'm out of time. I'll check back again. Jeff
     
  8. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    Im going to TSC tomorrow for supplies, what should I get? I don't want anything too painful for her. Or could you supply links to stuff I should get out of Jeffers? I might be able to do that easier. I really need help here..... by the way I went out there again too feed them and to give her the shot, and felt the udder. Where is the actuall mammary gland located? the lump is just behind the teat a little bit. The lump keeps getting smaller every day, but the one squirt of liquid I got out of her was a single chunk and red clear liquid still....
     
  9. arm

    arm New Member

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    If she is bright and alert with a good appetite you are probably past the point of antibiotics doing much good. You can quite with the shots as they are just making her hate you. The "quarter" is most likely lost although you won't know for sure until next freshening. The "lump" is either fibrotic tissue undergoing contraction of dead glandular tissue being absorbed by the body. The main mass of glandular tissue is located above and behind the teat.

    Try a dry tube like Tomorrow--it is a slower absorbing form (benzathine salt of the antibiotic cephapirin vs. the more soluable sodium salt used in Today). It will maintain high antiobitic levels for a week or more. The tube has the option of using only the very end of the infusion tip. I'm not sure how to explain it but the box will have directions. Look at the tip and you will see that you can either remove the entire tip "cover" or just the very end (which is what you should do). Shake the tube, clean the teat end with the enclosed alcohol swab, twist off the end tip cover and push the tip end firmly against the teat end sphincter and slowly inject all or part of the tube (depending on the size of her udder). Even if the teat end is too small to insert the end of the tip you can still hold the tip tight enough to the teat end that the medication will squirt through the opening into the teat. Jeff
     
  10. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    She never lost appatite and never got sick looking otherwise i would have noticed earlier than last thursday. I just wanted to find out what a dry udder felt like on daisy, and found that one side felt like a beanbag! it was origionally clear with white flakes.... She is still happy; She still plays with me. In fact, you couldn't tell by looking at the udder. I think I will keep giving shots for a while. She is really good with shots. Doesn't care at at all. lots of the time i wouldn't have to restrain her, but do b/c the dogs outside of the pen sometimes spook her during crutial moments......
    Thanks, tomorrow I am sure to buy some ToMorrow! hehe.....
     
  11. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    When you give a sub q shot, check the skin behind the front leg...kind of like the back of your arm up by the shoulder...You put the needle in at a 45 degree angle. Then you give the shot. NEVER give more that 3 or 4 cc in one site. Spread it around. The reason for the sub q is that it gets in the muscle and releases a more constant stream of meds. The muscle shots get in fast, and leave fast. You might give an IM shot one day and then sub q the others. You can give sub q behind the leg, in the neck. Mix the antibiotics...(not in the syringe). or just get rid of the pen and do the nuflor. It is prescription, you have to have a vet's ok to get it last I knew. I have develolped a relationship with our vet and he just gives it when I ask. Giving directions as the bottle states for penicillin/you might as well squirt it on the ground. It is a waste of time money and meds. The nuflor has to be given the way I stated in the previous post as opposed to the "cattle" directions. It leaves the system faster in a goat than it does the cattle. They will relapse quickly if not done that way. Same for pneumonia.
    As arm stated with the infusion....have someone help you. It is painful. massage the meds up the udder. I used bag balm to help make the bag slick so you can massage easier. (Or udder butter I think). massage up from the teat to the top of the udder. Lay the corn heat sack on it and massage some more. You can also milk her prior, lay the corn sack on , massage, and milk more. Good luck..I think you have probably lost the quarter just like arm stated. But no way to tell until she freshens. Have replacer on hand if she has kids. Wouldn't hurt to freeze some colustrum either. If I have a doe lose a kid, I milk out one side for 3 days, keep the colustrum and freeze it in ice trays. Each "cube" is one serving. You can take what you need. I label it , "day 1" "day 2" "day 3". Wrap it in saran or ziplocks. Then when I need colustrum, I have it on hand. I had a $500 boer doe that had trips the first time, nursed them until she had mastitis in one quarter, I treated her, she fed the kids the entire time....One kid go suffocated by the gaurd dog when they got under the lamp, she adopted an orphan, he finally died of pneumonia, but she weaned her two kids that were left. I would say I saved the udder. My advise only comes from experience. She was too expensive of doe to loose the udder.
    www.geocities.com/buckshotboers2003
     
  12. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm guessing the shot you got the lump with was a cdt? The cdt does regularly leave a lump, and you likely did nothing wrong at all. You might try again with the penicillin.

    After you put the Tomorrow in the teat, hold the end of the teat closed and rub it upwards then around in the udder. Then leave the udder alone and don't milk it out anymore until next freshening.

    I have used infusion drugs a few times and don't believe that it hurts much. They will be a little uncomfortable with the idea of having something squirted in, and you will need help holding her still while you do it. Once it's in, she'll be fine.
    mary
     
  13. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    yes it was a cd/t. not only that but it stressed them out more than the IM shots do. besides that, thierhide is so tough, and they were only 4 weeks old. I don't think i'd be too good with an adult. I just like IM. Daisy, the goat who has the mastitis, doesn't care about shots, just stands there. she's good about it all.
    I'm not too worried about the tomorrow product hurting her, but I was worried about the Iodine hurting her, i know for shure that would be bad.