I Told you So...

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by seedspreader, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. seedspreader

    seedspreader AFKA ZealYouthGuy

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    Ok, another thread Oxankle said this:

    I have to agree on this, I find it sort of sad but sometimes it seems that homesteaders of all breeds seem to root for catastrophes. Y2K was a big one,in the 70's it was the no clean water will exist, now the "peak oil" scare.

    Is this part of the mindset of a lot of homesteaders, that they are going to be "self-sufficient" because they want to be able to say I told you so? I have to admit sometimes I see it get pretty rough on here when a catastrophe is discussed, it is pretty typical to see someone say something like "I will laugh at those fools who didn't prepare and who laughed at me! I got my ammunition and ain't anyone taking nuthin from me." (Said in my best backwoods drawl). Any thing that we laid up for y2k was going to be used to help those who didn't, that was our plan from the beginning, just to get through the hard times and help rebuild.

    So what is your mindset? Am I the only one who sees this type of attitude or does it actually exist?
     
  2. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Modern society stinks.

    It is based on consumerism and credit and has little to no true joyful experiences.

    I find much more pleasure just staring at 'boring' fields and pastures than I do from 'important' stuff like art...

    That is the main reason to me at least-to be distant from modern society.

    Of course it isn't like rural areas aren't prone to the same but it is easier to see and enjoy fields and pastures in the country than the suburbs.
     

  3. Mastiff

    Mastiff Well-Known Member

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    Anyone that was dumb enough to keep his money where some rat might chew it up kind of deserves the outcome.
     
  4. GrannieD

    GrannieD Well-Known Member

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    Must say I at times have "worried" too much, but the Y2K thing was not a part of my worry...I've been a as much a homesteader as I possibly could all my life as I'm country ..I have found it quite satisfying to teach my kids how to raise food...I wouldn't trade this life for anything,but being wize know that there isn't a one of us that can survive on our own..each has a reason to be doing what we are..To live with a "spirit of fear" isn't good for us..I personally embrace the scripture (not LaHaye's version) & must trust that "all things work together"..I got a lot of spoiled powdered eggs & other stuff from friends who wanted to have the room..I had suggested that canned stuff from the store was a better way to be ahead...apart from canning my own..Right now not very many people want to learn the down & dirty of real homestead life...In 1951 the milk production af a dairy goat was less than 2 quarts..We've come a long ways in food & genetics..I like that! I don't have anyone in my circle who is all alone in their "homesteading" .. Most people want a pony their child can show not a real homestead pony which they were designed for..When the need arises there might be a change ...hasn't happened yet, but boy the grandkids like me !!! GrannieD
     
  5. moldy

    moldy Well-Known Member

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  6. vegascowgirl

    vegascowgirl Try Me

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    I believe in being prepared to some extent. Having canned food, alternative lighting and heating, first aid, etc. However, I do agree that some people go overboard. I lived in Las Vegas during the Y2K scare. I remember one trip to Wal-Mart when I saw a couple with all their so called y2k survival stuff. amongst the many bulk packs of paper towels,toilet paper, dried milk, freeze dried food packets, hunting knives, rifles, battery powered/crank radios, etc. was none other than an electric counter top cooking range....when I asked them about it they said it was to cover any loss of gas service they might have. granted that was in a city, and obviously those folks never thought of possible loss of electricity.
    I also see people on here that tend to be a tad extreme...but if that is what makes them feel comfortable and safe.....well, O.K.
    I don't think I'm going to have to fight anybody off if the worst case scenario should ever happen. Those folks who go out and build "bomb" shelters and brag about how well off they will be may have some problems because they have already drawn attention to themselves....if truth is known they would be the ones fighting amongst each other.
     
  7. insanity

    insanity Well-Known Member

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    It defiantly exist I'm one of the nutt jobs.Well only half nutts maybe.I take it all into consideration.But dont see a reason for consern over as much as some do..I mean sooner or later something bad is bound to happen.Our economy is a little to fragile if you ask me.And since we dont really have enough food in the country to feed every one should something bad happen (according to the nutt jobs anyway).I mean just look how crazy people get here in TN when they hear its going to snow 2inches.You cant find light bread at any store.The idiots think where going to be snowed in i guess.Then again the way they drive maybe they should stay home. Ever since we had an ice storm (for one day :rolleyes: ) a few years back every one freaks at the mention of it.I could only imaging what they would do should some one yell small pox's.

    Anyway I'm only half nuts i guess,i dont have mountains of can goods or ammo(do you no how much you would need to stay put? I do! ),how ever i suspect i have enough ammo,weapons already.And yep I'm nuts enough to defend my lively hood..Should some one yell boo seriously (not like Y2K i didn't fall for that one).But Id politely just pick up move to the hills.(no I'm not packed up and ready to run)No big deal for us.As we do a lot of back country camping anyway.Have plained on getting water purification stuff.(about the only thing we dont have,and might need) I no of a great cave id move into.(and like other nutt jobs defend it i guess if i had to).Figuring a couple of others might no where this cave is and would come.But unlike other nutt jobs i dont think the chaos would last very long.Or at least if it did most people wouldn't. :rolleyes: So as long as there is wild plants to eat and game to hunt we would be fine.And if not why would you want to survive anyway? Also should it be a nuclear strike or something.I wouldn't want to survive either i dont suspect.As a great thinker (aka nutt job) once said.He would just run out side get a deep breath and get it over with.(ME TO! :D ) As i dont live in far enough into the country like other home steaders i dought i could defend my home.And there no where to hunt for long here.So thats why i would head to the hills.

    Really and truely the full blown nutt jobs dont scare me as bad as the ones that think all is well and nothing will ever happen.I work with a guy like that.He would be one of the first ones that would be breaking in on you to try and steal food (and toilette papper :rolleyes: ) to feed and wipe himself/wife/kids.Those are the people that scare me! And he would be the first id shoot.(and enjoy it) :D Yes i could do that if i had to,just like he would steal if he had to.Lets be real here.You would steal and or maybe kill if you had to survive wouldn't you? Thats what scares me.
     
  8. Janon

    Janon 993cc Geo Metro

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    The "doom'n'gloomers" are plenty... whether its the price of oil, gas, the government, food, depression, recession, water, whatever. You'll see them here often... posting about how bad things are and how much worse they're going to get. Gas goes up in price (now there is a biblical prophecy of doom) and the gloomers are quick to rationalize how this equates to the end of civilization as we know it. It makes you wonder how these folks even enjoy living when they're so preoccupied with disaster. Fear comes in many forms.

    cheers,
     
  9. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    Or just maybe, for some, the "gloom & doom" is at least partially a convenient excuse to do what homesteaders want to do anyway - raise as much of our own food as we can, live frugally, live lightly on the land, etc., etc. :D
     
  10. Quint

    Quint Well-Known Member

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    I didn't buy into the whole Y2K thing but I didn't mind people getting more prepared or taking a look at personal responsibility. Plus afterwards I got killer deals from formerly scared soccer moms on generators, bulk long term storage foods and the like. The world didn't shut off and they wanted the garage and basement space back again.

    I was always exposed to "a preparation mindset" I come from pioneer stock. When they hacked homesteads out of the wilderness they didn't have FEMA,The Salvation Army, The Red Cross or even a police or fire department. If they didn't prepare for the unexpected they died. My parents were both farmers who grew up during the depression. We always canned, had at least a winters worth of food, the means to operate when the power went out etc. If that kind of thing is paranoid and doom and gloom then I guess I am. I was also a Boy Scout and I think the motto "Be Prepared" is pretty good advice.

    I just look at what what will probably happen and what might happen and plan accordingly.

    I probably can't get to the store for a few weeks sometimes during the winter and plan for that.
    I might not be able to get out for more than month so I can easily plan for that too.

    I will probably lose power sometimes so I plan for that.
    I might lose power for an extended period so I know how to deal with that too if the need arises.

    I live a long way from local law enforcement so I plan to take care of myself in the event of something happening.

    I keep firefighting gear here as well because by the time the FD gets here my house would be a lost cause.

    I live fairly close to a major railroad. (about 10 or 12 miles I guess). I know that hazardous chemicals and soon high level nuclear materials are going to traveling on those tracks. I prepare accordingly.

    I acknowledge the longer term or more less likely threats and plan accordingly. Most of the planning for more mundane contingencies comes in very handy in case the unlikely or unthinkable happens.
    The radiological detection and chemical protection equipment I keep in case of train derailment is just as handy if a terrorist detonates a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon in a city up wind of me or in the unlikely event that a nuclear plant sh*ts the bed and goes Chernobyl.
    That supply of food you keep just in case you get snowed in is also good to have in case of a deadly 1918 type influenza pandemic or terrorist related biological incident shuts down or seriously disrupts commerce and food distribution.
    All of that preparedness and knowledge would be critically needed if something truly catastrophic were to happen. The worst case scenario.

    To me, there is no worse feeling than to be confronted with a crisis and not having a plan or contingency. I just plan and prepare. It isn't particularly difficult or even very expensive. It isn't like altering your entire lifestyle or crawling in a cave and waiting for the end of the world. It is just seeing contingencies and being prepared for them. Something that my folks have been doing for a couple of hundred years now. It is mostly knowledge and mindset.

    I've been to Florida after Andrew. I know what it is like to see people totally clueless and helpless. I know what it is like to see civil authority and law and order break down. I was in LA during the riots (very briefly-we got the heck out of Dodge) and seeing society come unglued is not pretty. After Andrew the folks I was with had the necessary survival needs such as food, clothing, shelter etc. taken care of because they were prepared. What they didn't expect were the looters and criminals that descended on their neighborhood. They had grown up in the Midwest and after a disaster such as a tornado or flood everyone pitched in and neighbors helped neighbors. They didn't expect waves of criminals descending on their neighborhood to take by force the basic necessities that they did have. Or to do worse than that.

    I analyze what will happen, what might happen and what might be the worst case scenario and then try to plan accordingly. I don't think we are going to run out of oil any time soon. I think "global warming" is more fiction than fact. I don't think the poles are going to shift and the earth turn upside down. I thought Y2K was nothing more than good marketing by Charmin, Scott's Tissue and Art Bell. I don't believe in aliens or UFOs.

    I do believe in being prepared. If that makes me paranoid and doom and gloom then so be it.
     
  11. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    Y2K served as a catalyst for us to seriously consider power outages, alternative light sources and more. So while we didn't panic over it, it generated discussion with friends and neighbors and good planning. We purchased nothing we wouldn't use in real life. So installing a non-electric heater prepped us for the inevitable power outage in the winter. That kind of thing.

    We keep food/supplies on hand so that if we run low of funds, we eat out of the larder. This happens with 2 self-employed folks. There's ups and downs and the shelves even them out.

    I think good planning is part of the homesteading lifestyle.

    One regret from my early stocking up days.....that three pounds or so of dried veggie soup from the co-op. We hated it. Now I don't get so creative in my stocking. I simply by more of what we regularly eat and stick with that. Did you know our local WalMart carries Parmalat shelf-stable milk for about $1.44 a unit? We rarely drink milk and seem to run out just when we need some in a recipe or for a friend to drink. Having it in the basement keeps me from throwing out spoiled milk or eating more biscuits than I should from old milk.
     
  12. moonwolf

    moonwolf Well-Known Member

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    First off, what is being described mostly seems to be a 'survivalist' attitude rather than one particular to 'homesteaders'. One may be both, neither, or partially one or the other. That is to say some may choose being fatalistic and defensive, whether a homesteader or not.
    Perhaps ignoring some of the issues would have led to catastrophe. Maybe not at the time, but ultimately to catch up to human ignorance and overindulgence about some things like energy, oil reserves, and clean water resources. It's with due diligence that we care for these for ultimate care of our planet.
    As for Y2K, that might have also had practical spin offs the are seen today with development of ongoing computer security and so on.
    There is also danger about isolationist attitudes that can hinder honest and helpful human relationships and having people feel purpose within society.
    I don't know the solutions, nor whether pessimism is better than optimism, or that homesteading means personal and independent survivalism at all costs. We can control only so much that is external, though we can try to control our indvidual nature about what we want to be without imposing harm for others.
    I'm not an idealist, by any means, nor dwell on unearthly divine intervention that aren't concerned about humankind if humankind isn't concerned for itself and the 'community' for what is good for the planet, like clean water, makes only good sense that it benefits us individually also.

    sorry for the 'preaching'. :eek:
     
  13. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

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    I think this is how some people stay mentally sharp... they like to scare themselves in a safe way. Like going to a horror movie. You can scare yourself silly, but you're still safely in your seat at a movie theater.

    Just like you can "get ready" and "be prepared" but you're still safely in the USA. I mean, seriously... let's think of those white farmers in Africa that are being killed... is anyone going to argue that they were "unprepared?" No. What they were is "overrun."

    Or Bosnia, as another example.

    Now, the government's "duct tape and plastic" approach to being prepared struck me the same way: it doesn't do any harm, it might (yea right) do some good, and it gives people a feeling of having "done" something to get ready.

    But, as with all things, I think there are some people who could care less, some who prepare somewhat, and some who go right over the cliff... and then wait for The Test to see if they're really ready.

    I think there are people who are a little disappointed when The Test never comes. I know I find it annoying to have **STORM WARNING** flashed across the TV screen as if it is the STORM OF THE CENTURY only to wake up to a foot of snow in the morning. Whoopee. Sometimes, in my heart of hearts, I wish for The Storm. The one that takes down the power lines and buries New England... so I can see if our preparations really are "enough."

    And then I shovel the foot of snow on the way to the barn and I think "what are you... nuts? Like you want to move 3 more feet of this stuff!"
     
  14. Tana Mc

    Tana Mc Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That mindset is definitely out there. We are pretty darn self sufficient on our farm. Lots of people come to visit and I always cringe when I hear them say, " If anything ever happens, we are coming to your house!" I always smile and ask them, " What are you bringing to the party?"
    I do not know if the doomer mentality is wishful thinking or just what spurs it. I always felt that we were just called out. We just are not content living as everybody else does and I feel that maybe that is God's way of prompting us to live this homesteading lifestyle.
    I do know that when my hubby had a heart attack at 38 while I was pregnant with our 4th child, I had the security of knowing that the pantry and freezers were full and my kids and I wouldn't starve until he was recovered.
    When we had a bad ice storm and the power was out for 8 solid days and nights, our generators hummed right along and this farm never missed a beat and we were able to help our neighbors,too.
    When it rains 2 inches the water runs over the low water bridge at the end of my wild driveway and we are "stuck" here until the water drains to the river. Our attitude is "Let it rain!". We and our critters are high and dry.
    There is a certain security in knowing that no matter what life throws at you, you and your family will be able to " grunt and go" right along.
    I am happy to say that while the Y2K business was a big flop and we were fortunate enough that preparing for it wasn't a big deal at our house, it did make us think about things and how we would deal with others who do not keep a pantry or homestead. We did not find an answer as to how we would deal with it.......and I was very relieved. I am pretty much a pushover for people in need.
    Tana Mc
     
  15. cloverfarm

    cloverfarm Well-Known Member

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    We just like to have sufficient junk food and toilet paper on hand to make it through power outages. ;)
     
  16. Jan Doling

    Jan Doling Well-Known Member

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    I was definitely more relaxed after the 3 hurricanes than my city friends. We cooked on the fire pit, bathed in the pond (the geese loved that!), used oil lamps and got creative with canned goods. The kids enjoyed it to the extent that the 9 year old decided when she grows up she wants to live without electricity (that desire would probably go away after a month of no TV).

    I guess I'm a wimp: I'll enjoy all the ammenities as long as they are available and convert to survival mode when I have to (but it won't freak me out to have to).
     
  17. jack_c-ville

    jack_c-ville Well-Known Member

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    Your brother's friend who had his cash chewed up by rats may not be totally screwed if he kept what was left. You can send badly damaged currency to the U.S. treasury and they will replace it so long as a minimum of 51% of each bill is still present in some identifiable form. I've even heard of a man who hid tens of thousands of dollars in his barn and his cow ate it. He slaughtered the cow, recovered the mangled mess of half-digested cash and the Treasury managed to sort it all out for him.

    -Jack
     
  18. Mudwoman

    Mudwoman Well-Known Member

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    There was no oil shortage during the late 1970's when a political embargo caused a reduction in imported oil and we sat in long gas lines for hours! If you didn't live this, you can't appreciate the hassle.

    There was no Y2K, but in the winter of 2000 when a severe ice storm hit Arkansas and many people were without elec power for weeks, the people that had Y2K prepared sure were glad.

    Lots of professors of economics were saying to cash in your tech stocks in the later part of 1999----they said it was a bubble. Most ignored the advice. The Nasdaq peaked in Mar 2000.

    The point is that you just never know. We don't have the ability to see the future. One of man's most basic needs is shelter, clothing and food and feeling safe. Everyone has to decide how to meet those needs the best way they know how. For some it is preparing for the worst. For others it is believing in the hope for the best.
     
  19. southerngurl

    southerngurl le person Supporter

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    Retarded cow
     
  20. reluctantpatriot

    reluctantpatriot I am good without god.

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    I think that many homesteaders, and even survivalists for that matter, have a better mindset about things than most of the greater society does. Let's just focus on a few things and lets see how they stack up.

    How many people live paycheck to paycheck? How many are just two paychecks away from homelessness or starvation? How many homesteaders live frugally and make preparations in case of a job loss or some sort of food shortage or lack of store food access?

    Our country acts like there is no tomorrow in the way that we consume resources and spend money. Yes, there is a pun in there. However, we act like our resources are infinite when most of them are finite or are only mostly limitless if we were to use proper conservation and rationing of them. The water aquafers in the Western states are one example of this. Cities are depleting the water table faster than it can be refreshed. Tell me how that is not a disaster waiting to happen. Where are they going to get more water? Just keep tapping sources deeper and deeper or farther and farther away? What about farmers and ranchers who need the water for crops and livestock?

    As for fossil fuels, there are finite supplies of them and in some time, probably within this century, we will run out. What happens leading up to that time and after is up to interpretation, but there will be a radical change. Our fertilizers and pesticides are based on petroleum in some part, along with almost all plastics, and our economy is driven by petroleum products to transport and manufacture things. While we play lipservice to alternatives, we as a country don't think much about tomorrow regardless of the small parts that do.

    We think that we have all this high-tech medical care, and in part we do. However, we are finding that some of our most wonderful antibiotics are increasingly becoming ineffective because of resistant strains of bacteria and other microorganisms. As I am allergic to all cillins and sulfa drugs, which form the majority of the antibiotics available, I am worried because that leaves so few antibiotics that I can take to begin with. What happens when even fewer are usable because of a superbug?

    Our economy is funded by more and more credit and debt, with little to back it up. Stocks fluctuate along with real estate values. We speculate on so much based on perceived value, which changes with the moment. The Great Depression happened after easy credit, overstocked production and loss of sales added up over time. While the world economies are linked better than they were, who is to say that they will withstand the threat of a new depression?

    We have many jobs off-shored and even some of our food is now imported. Where does that leave our country when we have fewer jobs and even fewer good jobs here for our citizens? What about our farmers and ranchers who face greater odds each year just trying to make a living? We build more subdivisions and urban and suburban sprawl speads yearly. How much ariable land can we put asphault and concrete on before we don't have enough left to feed ourselves?

    I admit there are stupid people in all areas of society, from politicians to farmer and from homesteaders to survivalists. However, it seems from my point of view that the ones to worry about are those who are clueless about all the threats out there and who seem so unconcerned that help will always come from the government. I cannot make preparations for everyone who refuses to take responsibility for themselves. I can take care of me, my family members, livestock and pets and even a few close friends, but that is all. If this means I have to use deadly force to protect what preparations I have, so be it.

    My mindset is on preparation and trying to be as self-reliant and self-sufficient and independent as I can be. I function in the society we have because that is where I have to be right now to obtain what I need to reach what I want. The less I require from the society to live, the better off I am, though that is my personal view.

    Perhaps the sky is not falling right now, but you can't predict what tomorrow will bring. Is it that off the wall to prepare for major disaster while you putter on in life facing only small inconviences like a power outage here or a severe winter storm there? Being prudent and prepared is not strange. Thinking that everything will always stay the same and safe is however.

    There will always be the chance of a major natural or human-created disaster somewhere on the horizon. Some may go overboard, some may ignore it. Somewhere in there are those who hedge their bets and make preparations to a greater or lesser extent, hoping that they won't have to face their worst case senario.