I see where Calif judge has ruled

Discussion in 'Country Singletree' started by FarmboyBill, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. Lisa in WA

    Lisa in WA Formerly LisainN.Idaho Supporter

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    I have to admit to some preconceived negative ideas about evangelical Christians and I’m a Christian myself. I don’t actively discriminate against any group that I can think of though. Not like if I were a baker I’d turn away someone who wanted a cake celebrating snake handling or speaking in tongues.
     
  2. Redlands Okie

    Redlands Okie Well-Known Member

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    If a customer goes into a business to buy a cake or a can of oil how in the world is the business going to know your religion or sexual preferences or whatever? Present the information to get the transaction done. It’s just business.
    Why in the world would the customer even bring up any of the subjects? You walk in the door and ask for chocolate cake with hearts on it and “love forever (insert name)” or a bottle of 10w- 40 (insert brand of oil). Any thing else has very little to do with the BUSINESS transaction. No need to complicate things unless your looking for a problem. People sure like to cause problems, makes life interesting I guess.
     
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  3. coolrunnin

    coolrunnin Well-Known Member

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    I dunno I'm pretty open minded but if someone asked me for a cake with snakes on it, nope ain't happening I dont care what the fine is...
     
  4. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    If two women walk in holding hands and ask to buy a cake for their wedding are they “looking for a problem” or are they just doing what couples in love planning their wedding do every day of the week?
     
  5. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    You should at least try to be realistic.
     
  6. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    You realize those are really just variations of the Christian religion don't you.
     
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  7. Redlands Okie

    Redlands Okie Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer is YES to both questions. So pick and choose and handle the results. No need to go to court over such stuff, gees.
    Lots of different lifestyles and values out there. It’s not that hard to get along for most people. No need to be looking for a argument all the time.
    If your child, family, property or something important being mistreated then get up and go take care of it. But a cake or wedding dress or some such? What a way to live.
     
  8. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    So a gay couple is “looking for trouble” but a heterosexual couple acting exactly the same way isn’t? What’s the difference and who really has the problem, those who just want to go through their daily lives like anyone else or those who would punish them for it?

    Maybe you can answer my earlier question. Why should the religous be legally protected from the same discrimination they inflict on others?
     
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  9. FarmboyBill

    FarmboyBill Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes Bear, I realize that.
    There has always been conflicts of interest, and there still are, as is this one.
    Ranchers hated farmers. Drove them out, killed them, ran off their livestock, burnt their crops. Why? They were both agrarian types of people!
    In the northern states the Abolishionest? movement was Very strong, yet you had black riots in NY, cause, likely some of the same As were in the runm out crowd.
    Men and women have married for over 3000yrs. NOW, This minute, gays INSIST that all that be set aside, and for people to recognize and accept them in totality. Aint gonna happen. Its gonna take a couple generations before that happens, so get over it.
     
  10. FarmboyBill

    FarmboyBill Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What do you mean by (The same discrimination)? What is this SAME DISCRIMINATION?. Theres likely many more people nowadays who don't go to church anymore, like me, BUT who don't accept that theres a really real God.. They go on with their lives, and get the same services to them done same as people who go to church 3 times a week. There not discriminated against, as being athiests, OR at the very least, being indifferent to religion. There all treated the same, AS LONG, as they accept and agree to be hetrosexual. WHY?? Cause that has been a habit, a institution, a recognized set of morals for thousands of years, REGARDLESS whether they are religious OR NOT.
    BY THE WAY. I have no doubt that there will come a time when most younger people accept and even embrace homosexulality in their lives and environments. It just aint gonna happen today, or this week, or month, year or decade.
     
  11. Redlands Okie

    Redlands Okie Well-Known Member

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    I did not say the heterosexual couple was not looking for trouble. No need to put words in my mouth. I am not the one trying to start a argument. I just think everyone should make some effort to get along or just go along on down the side walk for most things. This nation is at a pretty good point in its history to be picking at the occasional issue.
    I have no reason why religion should be protected or not protected. Never said it should or shouldn’t. I was talking about the legal issues already in place.

    Why are there so many types of religions out there ? Perhaps it has something to do with some in the group having different ideas. So they started a new religion or method of practicing it. Seems this nation is a prime place to do so. Why force someone else to worship your way ? If you do not agree with the idea then move on and do your own thing.
    I will say that not to many wars have been over who was willing to bake a cake or work on a car. Religion and race and have been a issue quite a few times, thus deserves a bit of attention.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  12. BostonLesley

    BostonLesley Active Member

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    Suppose I was a baker...and someone asked me to make a cake decorated with Nazi symbols and a hanged man in the middle with the script "Jew" under the figure. Suppose I was Muslim and a customer asked me to make a wedding cake which depicted Allah. Suppose I was African American and a customer asked me to make a wedding cake for a KKK couple...they'll supply their own cute little flags... Suppose I was gay and a customer asked for a cake which had a script mocking same sex marriages ? Suppose I was Jewish and a customer wanted a wedding cake which is decorated with the word "God" all over it? Suppose my religion forbids me to participate in any way in gay marriage and a customer asks me to bake a wedding cake for his gay marriage? The argument that demands that a baker must be forced to make a wedding cake against his religion or go out of business means that ALL BAKERS should be forced to make ALL cakes requested by ALL customers for every example above....OR should common sense and decorum rule and ALL of these bakers be allowed to decline to create what THEY find to be better done by someone else.
     
  13. Redlands Okie

    Redlands Okie Well-Known Member

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    Well 10 pages so far...... and I suspect not a “correct” answer available ☹️
     
  14. Lisa in WA

    Lisa in WA Formerly LisainN.Idaho Supporter

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    I missed the part where gay folks asked that straight marriages be set aside.
     
  15. AmericanStand

    AmericanStand Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was clear but I will see if I can help clarify a bit more.

    The country that I live in and that I assume we are talking about is the United States of America. This is a republic founded on certain rights important to the founders and with a few modifications by the overwhelming majority.
    One of those rights is freedom OF religion.
    Not freedom from religion.
    There are other rights of behavior that are guaranteed.
    In any case the reason we have freedom of religion is because it is guaranteed in the constitution.
     
  16. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    So, is the heterosexual couple walking in the store “looking for trouble” or not? Why is it incumbent on the gay couple to alter their behavior to get along? Can’t you, or the baker, simply accept them doing the same thing as other people and make the effort to get along? Why do others have to get along with you? Can’t you get along with them? Be the bigger person.

    And I’m talking about the legal issues in place. It’s not legal for me to look at the person wearing the crucifix around her neck or the WWJD bracelet on his arm and say to them that because of those things I won’t serve them in my business. Shouldn’t I have the ability to tell them to remove such items before entering my shop and to get along with me or go along? Isn’t it the same standard you say is just fine to use against others? Why can’t I? One doesn’t have to say that they favor something in order to answer whether that something should happen or not.

    How many people does it have to affect before it becomes important enough to address? Or, that discrimination doesn’t affect you but those you might disagree with enough reason not to worry about it or fight against it?
     
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  17. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    You were good up until the last one. The law is quite clear that the baker, or printer or artist does not have to create specific languages or symbols that they find offensive if they are consistent in not creating them for anyone. In the Colorado case and in this one no special decorations were requested. Sometimes a cake is just a cake.

    Bakers don’t participate in weddings. They bake and sell cakes, some of which are used in weddings.
     
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  18. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    The guarantee in the constitution protects you and me from actions by the government. It doesn’t protect you from me or me from you. And it shouldn’t give you more protection than me based on you choosing to be religous.

    The government protects your right to speak freely. You have no such right here, do you? The moderators can remove your posts and ban you from even being here. Are they violating your rights? No they’re not.

    So, why can’t I ban any religous expression by you in my business or even simply decide my business won’t sell any member of a specific religion anything? I understand the government offering protections for those things that one is born being- Race, ethnic origin, sex. But religion? Why should I have to accept you because you choose to believe? It’s your choice to do so. Shouldn’t it be my choice not to serve you?
     
  19. AmericanStand

    AmericanStand Well-Known Member

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    you are right I agree.
     
  20. mmoetc

    mmoetc Well-Known Member

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    So, you’ll start advocating for laws to remove religion from the protected classes?