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I have just not had any luck finding a doggie. I buried my last doggie in December, a Rottweiler/German shepherd who was just perfect for me. I know I can never find another like him (just as he could never be what Augie doggie was before him). But still, I would like a Rottweiler cross of some sort, because I need a dog with some gravitas, who doesn't require constant fetching nor will go on a runner for days. One who will stick around home because it is home and his people live there and he has to make sure everything is ok. A Rott/shepherd, Rott/pyr, Rott/golden retriever. Something like that. Must get along with cats and not desire to eat the ducks. I would prefer an adult dog, but it seems like a puppy is what I will have to get.

Everyone says, go to rescues, but our rescues are full of pits and pit crosses. And chihuahuas sent up from CA. I look on CL and I see a lot of the same types, plus mercenary dogflippers. "Backyard breeders" are decried everywhere, and often are unloading parvo puppies. Yet "proper" breeders are breeding for traits that aren't necessary for my purposes and they insist on whacking off Rottweiler tails.

Sigh.

Anybody have a nice Rottweiler they'd care to breed with a nice German shepherd or Pyrenees or golden retriever?

 

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I don't know about being cat and duck friendly, but if you raise them that way from a pup, I'm sure they would play nice......lol.
I can't remember if it was you that asked before or not, but I always wanted a rottie/lab mix. The day I got her from the pound was a day I never regretted, even though it changed our lives and how and where we lived.
I've seen a few others at the vet, in the park, at the store, etc and every single person bragged they were the best ever.
I know I'm prejudiced, but it's like BBQ, once you've had the best, no one can tell you different.
 

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Keep looking for that rescue. I find rottie rescues all the time. I'd have a mess of them if I could. We adopted a female a year ago. She is a sweetie and has helped me with the loss of my female ,Sasha. I'm looking for a rottie pup,but I am very pickey and one has not spoken to me yet. Heck, I put just as much thought into a name, and haven't come up with one. That's what happens when you loose the love of your life,my male ,Angel.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Why not just get a Pyrenees then or other friendly breed of LGD like Maremma?
Also, you can get a rottie with the tail, but you have to contact the breeder before the litter is born.
Because Pyrs and Maremmas are perimeter guards and I have no perimeter. And they are preemptive barkers.
 

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When you cross breeds there is no guarantee of what mix of traits you will get. Your rott cross could act completely like the other breed it's mixed with. It may or may not look rottie at all. That's one reason responsible breeders dislike those who cross breeds. You have no idea what you'll get and the people buying have no idea what they'll end up with so it's more likely the dog won't work out in the home leading to more shelter dogs or in rescues.
 

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We have a lab ( free) who knows where her border is and she keeps inside that safe.

Dont mess with the kids or animals and all is well. Funny thing is she never looks like she is watching the goings on but be assured she is.

I always have to have a puppy. I need the dog to meld into our household. Bringing in an adult has NEVER worked out well for us as they dont learn our lifestyle, needs quirks etc.
 

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I had the most wonderful Lab/Rottie mix named Crow. Most trustworthy dog on the planet would literally not even hurt a fly, he would just sit there and look sad if one landed on him. Here is a video of him pulling my daughter in a wagon when she was a baby. He would stand close to me when he was scared and as you can see in the video, he completely ignored all the dogs running around him trying to get him to play when working.

http://youtu.be/j_29eDanhZo
 

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When you cross breeds there is no guarantee of what mix of traits you will get. Your rott cross could act completely like the other breed it's mixed with. It may or may not look rottie at all. That's one reason responsible breeders dislike those who cross breeds. You have no idea what you'll get and the people buying have no idea what they'll end up with so it's more likely the dog won't work out in the home leading to more shelter dogs or in rescues.
This - exactly. The reason there are purebred dogs is to ensure the breed traits are passed on -- temperament, size, physical characteristics and working ability. You don't just get a "blend" of the two breeding dogs, but have consistency through generations of breeding. But even with the best purebred breeding, you can still end up with puppies that don't meet the breeder's expectation for one or more of the traits.

Taking two random dogs and crossing them is a huge crapshoot. Even if each of the breeding dogs has a fantastic temperament or working ability, there is absolutely no guarantee that there will be any of that passed on to the next generation - or that they will look anything like a mix of the two breeds. And, they may also pass on all kinds of undesirable traits - like dysplasia (unless you have generations of good hips).

I have a purebred dog that looks nothing like either of his parents -- he is gigantic (4 inches too large), and has odd conformation (not horrible, just not great). This was from two Champion parents with five generations of Champion bloodlines except ONE dog, two generations back. Guess which one he took after? (The only non-champion, because he too was enormous.)

If you want a mix - get a rescue.
 

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This - exactly. The reason there are purebred dogs is to ensure the breed traits are passed on -- temperament, size, physical characteristics and working ability. You don't just get a "blend" of the two breeding dogs, but have consistency through generations of breeding. But even with the best purebred breeding, you can still end up with puppies that don't meet the breeder's expectation for one or more of the traits.

Taking two random dogs and crossing them is a huge crapshoot. Even if each of the breeding dogs has a fantastic temperament or working ability, there is absolutely no guarantee that there will be any of that passed on to the next generation - or that they will look anything like a mix of the two breeds. And, they may also pass on all kinds of undesirable traits - like dysplasia (unless you have generations of good hips).

I have a purebred dog that looks nothing like either of his parents -- he is gigantic (4 inches too large), and has odd conformation (not horrible, just not great). This was from two Champion parents with five generations of Champion bloodlines except ONE dog, two generations back. Guess which one he took after? (The only non-champion, because he too was enormous.)

If you want a mix - get a rescue.
So what you are saying is even with champions you get oddballs. It's a crapshoot, then, even with your purebreds. My mutt pictured above was unlike anything, and yet he was perfect for me. He had Rottie nature, no matter what he looked like. That's what I am hoping to get.
 

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As far as AKC Champions, that is conformation championship, not temperament or working ability.

Conformation is all about how the dog is structurally put together i.e do they have a decent coat, all their limbs measure out and do they have both testicles and all of their teeth, etc.

Many show champions have dominant or recessive traits they continue passing onto offspring but it is up to each individual breeder to test for certain congenital conditions inherent and endemic to that particular breed. For example, St. Bernards, Newfoundlands, Rottweilers, Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, German Shepherd Dogs, and Labs have the highest incidence of hip dysplasia. Miniature and toy Poodles, Maltese,Jack Russell Terriers, Yorkies, Poms and others have the highest incident of patellar luxation. There are other breed specific diseases and structural issues like degenerative myelopathy and heart problems as well as eye issues. These are just the most commonly discussed that we are familiar with. http://www.hsvma.org/assets/pdfs/guide-to-congenital-and-heritable-disorders.pdf

A quality breeder who cares about their dogs and the dogs they bring into this world will test their breeding dogs for the problems most prevalent in their breed of choice. Quality German Shepherds that will have the best chance of being healthy will come from generations of OFA certified hips and DM-clear (Degenerative Myelopathy), for example. But that doesn't mean they can't develop these all the same. It just cuts down the chances.

The idea that mixed-breed dogs are healthier is a myth. http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedaily.../dispelling_the_mixed_breed_health_myth-12067 What offthegrid said is true, true true.

Now, we have Champion Dogs who are champions because of how they look, not their working ability as pertains to the breed standard. For example, Labrador Retrievers are shown in the Sporting Group because they are sporting dogs who retrieve things like duck and pheasant. However, the AKC breed standard that judges go by when assessing a potential champion Labrador Retriever has a huge list of appearance traits and only the following for temperament: "Temperament: True Labrador Retriever temperament is as much a hallmark of the breed as the "otter" tail. The ideal disposition is one of a kindly, outgoing, tractable nature; eager to please and non-aggressive towards man or animal. The Labrador has much that appeals to people; his gentle ways, intelligence and adaptability make him an ideal dog. Aggressiveness towards humans or other animals, or any evidence of shyness in an adult should be severely penalized." https://www.akc.org/breeds/labrador_retriever/breed_standard.cfm

Nothing about hunting. Just basically be a nice dog and don't bite anyone. This has nothing to do with their ability to retrieve during a hunt. This is why there are Field Labs and Show Labs. Show Labs are champions in conformation. Field Labs can be champions too - not in AKC, but in sporting dog trials.

Same with German Shepherds. There are American Lines, German Show Lines, German Working Lines, etc. American Lines would never win in Germany and German Show Lines would never win in AKC shows. Working line dogs would extremely rarely win in the show ring because it's very tough to get beauty and brains all in one and the working lines are definitely the brains, but let me say again - sometimes will come a dog who has it all, but the AKC isn't going to find that dog and most people won't just happen to find that dog, but people who are working their dogs in real world scenarios and/or titling their dogs in certain competitions are the ones who will end up judging whether a dog "has it all". This is why, when choosing a dog, titles and/or work done does matter - it's the only way a dog is truly tested for their working ability in the area that breed is intended for. The AKC doesn't give one hoot about a dogs genetic predisposition, either medically or temperamentally. As long as the dog looks good and doesn't limp around the show ring or try to bite the judge. The AKC is a business. Having AKC papers doesn't matter. Having working (not show) titles does.

I have a German Shepherd that I chose very carefully and I didn't use a pedigree of champions. I used a pedigree of working dogs, with titles in Schutzhund, working K9s, Search and Rescue and Service dogs. I know the temperament of every dog in that pedigree going back several generations and the dogs out of those dogs. Well, the breeder, who also tests and titles all of her dogs, knew all of that - she just had to fill me in and pick a puppy for me out of her litter, because she knew those puppies the best during the eight weeks they had been alive and out of the puppy tests she gave them. I also know that I have a dog very unlikely to suffer from the congenital hip problems the breed is so prone to and I very nearly could have bet a lot of money on how my pup was going to turn out when he grew up. He is one now and exactly what we knew he would be. Knowing all of that was very helpful when choosing a dog for the specific task I chose this puppy for (Search work).

Adopting shelter puppies doesn't have to be a total dice roll. There are puppy temperament tests that can be done, depending on the age of the puppies, and a canine professional can definitely assess how a puppy is most likely going to turn out, independent, or insecure - which drives the puppy has, like prey drive, hunt drive, defense, are all going to be important to know so you can choose the puppy most likely to fit into your family and life situation. There are people who can help you choose your next puppy or dog based on their assessment of the animal. They can help you find the puppy who will grow up least likely to chase your cats or kill your chickens or defend your home by barking or protection.

To sum it up, having a line of champions doesn't mean you will have a dog with the appearance of a conformation champion but you will be more likely to. It will not mean you have a necessarily healthier dog or smarter more biddable dog, because looks aren't everything and the AKC means very little.

Having a line of working dogs may or may not mean that your dog will excel at the work the breed is meant to do, depending upon the handler, but you have a much greater chance of knowing what you will get. All of you with working LGDs know what I'm talking about here. I want my LGD from working LGDs and the AKC has nothing to do with their ability to do their jobs. But I can say right now that I will prefer a breeder who does certify hips because the LGDs are all large breed dogs prone to these problems.

Adopting a puppy may feel like an unknown, but it really isn't if you can find a qualified professional to help you assess the puppy and the same goes with shelter dogs. There are a lot of great dogs who die every day who would have been awesome pets and even working dogs. Why should anyone continue to breed unstable dogs, physically and temperamentally untested, including mixed and purebreds and add to the 2.7 million dogs who die in shelters each year, one dog killed about every 11 seconds? I don't have a good reason.
 

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So what you are saying is even with champions you get oddballs. It's a crapshoot, then, even with your purebreds. My mutt pictured above was unlike anything, and yet he was perfect for me. He had Rottie nature, no matter what he looked like. That's what I am hoping to get.
Well, of course it's a crapshoot - if it were only as simple as letting good dog mate, all the dogs in the world would be perfect examples of their breed.

But realistically, you have a much better chance of getting what you want, when you breed dogs with a known genetic history of the trait(s) you value - whether it is conformation, temperament, working ability, (or usually, a combination of all of these). If you want a dog with a Rottie nature, you are much more likely to get it from a Rottie than a cross. And even more likely to get it from a breeder that has a history of producing dogs with that nature.

I have nothing against mixed breeds - but the shelters are FULL of them. No need to breed another crossbred litter for a single puppy - unless you have a whole breeding program in mind (and a market for the puppies).
 

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We lost our 15 year old lab mix (a "bigboxstore dog" who my hubby adopted from in front of a bigboxstore before we met) last summer. I know what you are going through.

I never thought I'd love again.

Until I met my doggie, Mort. Mort is one of those dogs you mentioned from CA. He was passed from shelter to shelter, and his last shelter was in your area in Washington state. A rescue group here in OR took him because he was "un adoptable" - fearful of everyone and everything.

He is a "designer dog" - one of the masses of dogs sent up here from CA you mentioned. He's a chiweenie (half dachshund / half chihuahua) and I would have never thought he'd be right for us. We found him through a small rescue group who brought him over to see if he'd be a good fit.

He has his issues (because he was so terribly mistreated at some point) but boy are we lucky he found us. I love him like a crazy person and he's healing from his journey and "normaling".

Please don't get stuck on the "right breed". I KNOW you can find a dog that will fit your life.


Here's a listing of rescue groups in your area:
https://www.petfinder.com/animal-shelters-and-rescues/search/?location=98110&shelter_name=

Certainly you can find a small rescue group who can help you find your perfect dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well, I went to a rescue to meet a shepherd mix, but wasn't taken with him. But they had another doggie there, a doberman mix, female and very sweet. Didn't know how she would respond to cats or lack of fences. A submissive dog. Took her on spec, and we are going to keep her. She has no interest in running off or chasing tennis balls or cats, just wants to be around us, especially me. She acts like a cartoon doberman when she hears a sound: gets up, goes to check it out, looks fearsome and vigilant, then, job done, comes back and flops down by me. My own private bodyguard. Oh, and she is very, very quiet. She does have kennel cough and was spayed a few weeks ago, so let us see if she gets a little more rambunctious when she is fully recovered from all that. I wouldn't mind a little more playfulness (she is 1-2yrs old). But even if she just remains a quiet, gentle bodyguard, that'll be fine.
 

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Well, I went to a rescue to meet a shepherd mix, but wasn't taken with him. But they had another doggie there, a doberman mix, female and very sweet. Didn't know how she would respond to cats or lack of fences. A submissive dog. Took her on spec, and we are going to keep her. She has no interest in running off or chasing tennis balls or cats, just wants to be around us, especially me. She acts like a cartoon doberman when she hears a sound: gets up, goes to check it out, looks fearsome and vigilant, then, job done, comes back and flops down by me. My own private bodyguard. Oh, and she is very, very quiet. She does have kennel cough and was spayed a few weeks ago, so let us see if she gets a little more rambunctious when she is fully recovered from all that. I wouldn't mind a little more playfulness (she is 1-2yrs old). But even if she just remains a quiet, gentle bodyguard, that'll be fine.

Kennel cough and the spay, is def something that will get her a bit down, I would think she will perk up some after she is recovered and feels better- Congrats on finding a good fit! That velcro- ness is something alot of the guarding working dogs breeds, espec the females have as a tendency (something I value in my giant schnauzer).... So happy that you found her and hoping it works out well in the long run...
 

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Because Pyrs and Maremmas are perimeter guards and I have no perimeter. And they are preemptive barkers.
Aint that the truth- very very good at what they do, but your neighbors may not appreciate their hard work...

Hey forgot to mention-
we need to see a pic of your new Love!!!!
 

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Kennel cough and the spay, is def something that will get her a bit down, I would think she will perk up some after she is recovered and feels better- Congrats on finding a good fit! That velcro- ness is something alot of the guarding working dogs breeds, espec the females have as a tendency (something I value in my giant schnauzer).... So happy that you found her and hoping it works out well in the long run...
Yes, it is a female guarding dog thing. My German Shepard female is stuck to me like glue, but no other person but me. My Doberman female would have taken the head off any man wearing a baseball cap, but as soon as the cap is removed she would have gone home with him forever:). But my male Doberman was attached to me fiercely. The only male dog I have ever had that was like that!

Enjoy the new dog! Good choice...I love the Doberman breed the best:)
 
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