I Feel So Helpless ! Goat with Loose BBm's for One Week !!

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Helena, May 8, 2005.

  1. Helena

    Helena Well-Known Member

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    I posted this same problem last week. 6 yr old doe kidded with triplets..everythiing fine there. About 2 days after birth began with very, very, very loose stools. Treated with Ivomec, Cor-rid, and gave Immodium and Pepto Bismol. Was advised on here not to give her the Immodium. Then for a couple of days the stools were soft but "improving". Now today it is literally running out of her rear end..I feel so helpless. The kids are on her which makes it worse. Trying to bottle feed but 2 of them refuse. Of course. I clean her up 4 times a day and tonight I am at my wits end !! I will drop a stool sample off at the vet on my way to work in AM..call them later and she what advice they can give me. They are not goat doctors so I feel as if I actually know more or nothing that they do. Oh..she is on grass an hour or 2 a day...but she always was. Change to a lesser per cent feed last week due to goats not eating their usual. But she has been on this same feed before also. CAn Anyone Give Me Any Ideas..PLEASE !! HELP !!!!!!! :confused: (baby goats so far seem to be OK)
     
  2. tltater

    tltater Well-Known Member

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    I have used kaopectate and pepto for diarhea when I first got my goats. That did work for me. I medicated 2 times per day for two days and no problems. So, if you have treated I would do what I would do for any other animal. Completely off grain, only hay (wouldn't let her eat any fresh grass for right now either) add some gatorade or some other electrolyte drink to her water or give straight, and probios. Nothing but hay until poop is normal for at least 24 hours. In the experience I have had with all animals in the veterinary field, when they have diarhea you need to let the stomach settle, not have to work so hard to digest until things are back to normal....same with humans! Bland diet for a couple of days than gradual back to normal eating habbits.

    Just my 2 cents!

    Tracy
    Southwestern, NY
     

  3. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    imodium is not the right treatment at all. even if a goat has diarrhea it could well be that she is constipated. i will try to explain it to you as good as i can.
    the intestine has two sections. in the first section the stool is very thin and in the second section water is absorbed and goes back in the body and pellets are formed. if the second section has a blockage the water will not be absorbed, goes around and you see diarrhea. the imodium will stop the movement of the intestine and nothing is coming anymore. if that happens the goat will die.
    in your case i suspect a worm load. i don't know were you are located but in texas for example ivermec doesn't help. lot of people are using cydectin for their goats. i think it is a very good idea to have the stool checked from a vet and go from there. also a good idea after de-worming would be to give her probios to help get good bacteria back in the rumen. if the diarrhea continuos get some lactate solution from your vet and give it sc to keep her hydrated.
    good luck with your goat
    susanne
     
  4. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

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    If your goat ate any of the afterbirth, this will cause loose stooles, but I think it is likely worm over load. the vet should be able to see the worms in the sample you are dropping off. mine like orange flavored gator aid, but I would get some in her fast. then stop the grain, and just giv hay., New pasture grass, also does this, so I wouldn't let her out to pasture for a while. the day, mine kid, I give vvaslapan. be very careful using corid, and alwys use
    probious, for a couple of days. I would give her about 10 turns on the tube of it NOW, you must get her rumnin working correctly. I would give her the probious at least 3 times a day. for 5 days. Also would give her vitamin b complex, and probably 1 cc of iron. just to keep her built up, and a shot of BO SE, wouldn't hurt. keep us posted.
     
  5. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I had to switch wormers too....I happen to have a high worm load in Maine after a long cold winter. Was using safeguard and still big wormload....switch to Ivermec and my girls are doing better. Lots of pig paste with cultures in it and I used pepto for the runnies.

    Pig paste was purchased at Jefferslivestock.com. We also will we worming more often for awhile.

    Sweeten the water with koolaid molasses or juice to encourage fluid intake.
     
  6. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    The problem even your vet at this point will not be able to get a good fecal with this much fluid in the poop. I would worm her, give her 5grams of Probios every couple of hours, and get some Banamine from the vet. This will calm her gut. The doe will get dehydrated, her immunity will fall, she will die from pnemonia or whatever other problem is prevalant in your area, here is't pnemonia from the humidity. Also when a doe has a severe worm load like your doe has that was not addressed with the Iveremctin (either because of resistance or giving to small a dose or injecting it) then other things in the goat like cocci, or pasturella, which are both normal occurances in a goat. Cocci is in every goats bowel, and pasturella is in every goats nose, but stress a goat like this and they flare up. So then you have several problems all at once. Severe anemia from the worms, dehydration from the diarrhea caused by the worms, you are seeing blood and fluid and intestine, then more blood loss from cocci, a runny nose starts. So to the above worming which will be every 10 days for 3 times, and the Probios and the Banamine for 6 days (1cc per 100 pounds) start her on a good sulfa like Albon, this will help with the bacterial pnemonia and also keep cocci at bay. You don't have cocci problems in healthy adult goats, but in ill ones it's pretty much a given. If you don't support her fluids with subq lactated ringers, the dehydration will only get worse. Slowing the gut with Banamine will help it heal, stop the cramping action you caused by using the Immodium AD, and hopefully get her back on tract.

    All the pepto and keopectate (same ingredient by the way) isn't going to help if it's worms, cocci, etc. A vet would be able to tell you if this is Ecoli or Giardia etc..

    You will loose the doe if you don't act fast. What area are you in, perhaps a local breeder has the stuff you need to use if you don't have the wormer or the Banamine. Vicki
     
  7. Helena

    Helena Well-Known Member

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    OK...took a sample down to the vet this AM. He finally called back this evening and this is the story ?? They have strongyloide worm and coccidiosis. Never thought they didn't. Anyways he suggested I worm again with the Ivermec..continue with the Cor-rid too. So..I wormed again and gave the cor-rid by mouth not in the drinking water. I'm not comfortable worming again so soon. But...tomorrow I will go to the vet and get some Biosol for scours and some thiamine too. I have here in the fridge a bottle from Hoegger company their Goat Serum for newborns. Should I give some of that to anyone ?? The probios I hope he has. I think that would just her feel better. Now...the kids. should I do anything with them. They don't show any signs of anything yet and probably won't for a couple of weeks yet. I am in shock with all of this. I feel so badly for my doe and not I'm sure all of them will drop dead any minute too. Now I will need to get more cor-rid or should I switch to the Albon ?? they all have had their Bo-Se shots before kidding would it hurt to give another does. My poor babies will be like "pin cushions" I'm afraid. :waa: I am going to concentrate more so on the rotating of their pasture. Have gotten lazy the last year and I fear now I or should we say the goats are paying the price. Am not really happy with the vets attitude. But..no one else around at this time. Thank You all for all your advice. I will take most of it for sure. if the vet doesn't have what I need I will get Hoegger's supply to ship it to me fast. Wish me luck !!!
     
  8. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    Vicki, I have a question for you...

    If a person was not able to get probios (they are difficult to find around here, always keep them on hand but need to order them)..could acidophilus capsules be used?

    I think it's acidophilus. I know that when I am sick, I go to the health food store and get these capsules of probiotics and I thought that was what they are called.

    Can they be given to goats in a pinch?

    Been thinking about that for a long time now ...
     
  9. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have seen previous posts by Vicki mentioning using vitamins and supplements from Walmart....you might search on it. Acidophilous will help but the probios actually has a couple different cultures as well.

    Helena I would do cocci preventative on kids at 3 weeks. And I also rewormed 10 days after using safeguard but used Ivermec. My fecal count was very high. Vet recommmends a follow up fecal 2 weeks after 2nd worming'
     
  10. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Yes acidopholus will work, but it is just a single culture, like yogurt is. Probiotics contain colonies of cultures...probably best of all would be fresh kefir which is healthy bacteria, as long as you are using milk from negative does. Fever, medications, too much liquid in the rumen is going to cause problems with the amount of bacteria in the rumen and gut. Replenishing it is key. Order Probiotics and keep them in the fridge, it should be routine managment when you have to worm, cocci treat and of course for illness. The very first thing you should do when a goat is ill, has diarrhea or anything is to give probiotics, take the temp and give B vitamins. Any problem with the rumen is going to make the goat stop producing it's own b vitamins in it's healthy rumen.

    There are several really good articles out there on feeding the rumen, alot like keeping a healthy septic tank. Alot of people love their goats to death. Vicki
     
  11. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    vicki that is what i think if i read some of the posts too. it is so understandable though. the goats get sick most of the time because we did something wrong. deep in our mind we know that and try to compensate.
    susanne
     
  12. Helena

    Helena Well-Known Member

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    Ok...have the probiotics from vet after asking for it. He said not to give it to her until the worm problem was under control but I do believe I might give it too her today anyway. She is very active and eating, drinking but I really can't see much improvement in her stools. Still liquid/soft. I take another sample in to him on Monday but think I will drop it off on Friday on my way to work. Going for kaopectate today..he suggested but wasn't worried about it hoping she would improve on the stools..but hasn't. I fully expect the kids to start pooping any day and am going to call Hoeggars goat supply today and get somethings ready for that. Wormed all the other goats with ivomect (sp) again and giving cor-rid now 9cc full strength daily. Gave the thiamine (vit B) shot and will give to all others too. Clean out the pen 2 x's a day to keep it under control. I have been letting her out by herself..separate from the herd during the day. Vet said to let her eat what she wants so she doesn't totally dehydrate on me. But she does act fine..running for the feed bag and all the annoying little things goats do when you have a feed bucket in your hands and they know your fair game for their tricks. Thank you all for all of you help...I'll be looking still for any more ideas and thoughts. I too believe that most vets don't really understand goats. Lost a really very good female vet a few years back that was excellent on the care of goats from this same practice we deal with now. She went to teach at a college as she adopted a little girl and I suppose needed a more 9 to 5 schdule for her family. Thanks again !!
     
  13. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jefferslivestock.com is cheaper than Hoeggers but use the hoegger catalog for dosages and recommendations

    I just purchased pig paste with iron for $4.25 30ml (which hoegger sells for goats)
    probiotic paste $6.95 for 80cc
    Vetrx 2oz $5.15
    generic ivermectim (horse type) treats 1200pound horse $3.79

    Actually with the iron pig paste it has probiotics in it....very good stuff and my goats really like it! My vet approves.

    I use a piece of bread to give wormer and pig paste at correct dosage to the girls.

    You might want to get some Di methox 40% for Cocci treatment and B-complex to have on hand as well.

    I use pepto tabs and I give 2 tabs in a piece of bread....usually one dose works.