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I concede

1K views 31 replies 12 participants last post by  Bearfootfarm 
#1 ·
Our Bill of rights guarantees us the right to bear arms. Canada has no such right.

The reason we have more gun deaths than Canada is they have tighter control of their guns.

Where do we go from here?

https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-states/demographics

Canada
1/10 the population, less racially diverse, slightly higher educated populace per capita, less living below the poverty level and maybe a few other things you can discover using these links

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ca.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
 
#5 ·
60K killed every year

From the article-

"Right now, Brazil actually has tough gun laws. If you want to own a gun legally these are the requirements:

— a fixed address

— proof of legitimate income

— no criminal record

— a mental health test

— proof you know how to handle a gun and shoot it

— evidence of why you need a gun. For example, a police report of an attack against you.

Even if a prospective gun owner supplies all this information, the police can arbitrarily deny a request for a gun permit."
 
#7 ·
You lost me. Can you explain what you mean?
 
#13 ·
Yet you’ll post your examples as if they are yet ignore those that don’t support it.

Guns laws are only as good as the ability and will to enforce such laws. Japan is unique in their culture and geography make such laws easily enforced. In other places, including the US, various factors make even the most stringent laws almost unenforceable. Trying to draw any real conclusion from any of them is a fools errand.
 
#18 ·
Our Bill of rights guarantees us the right to bear arms. Canada has no such right.

The reason we have more gun deaths than Canada is they have tighter control of their guns.

Where do we go from here?

https://www.indexmundi.com/factbook/compare/canada.united-states/demographics

Canada
1/10 the population, less racially diverse, slightly higher educated populace per capita, less living below the poverty level and maybe a few other things you can discover using these links

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ca.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
Is a “gun death” somehow worse than any other kind of death?

For example: 2/3 of our “gun deaths” are suicide, but, societies that have high rates of suicide, like Japan, still experience all the suicides that they would if they had access to guns, they’re just by different methods. Is our suicide problem worse because they’re so frequently committed with guns?

I think it’s fair to concede that the US has a violence problem, but it’s unreasonable to start throwing solutions at it until we know what the actual causation is. We can’t have a reasonable discussion about causation when we muddy the data by using statistics on “violent gun deaths” where 2/3 of those numbers are suicide.

I, of all people, Mr. Shall Not Be Infringed, is open to having a discussion about gun regulation, but I, like many on my side of the table, flat refuse to give an inch until we can have an honest, reasonable discussion.

And here’s a perfect example of why we cannot. Don Lemon’s approach to a “reasonable discussion” of the issue starts when those who disagree with his position “shut up”, because he “doesn’t want to hear it”.
 
#26 ·
Is a “gun death” somehow worse than any other kind of death?

For example: 2/3 of our “gun deaths” are suicide, but, societies that have high rates of suicide, like Japan, still experience all the suicides that they would if they had access to guns, they’re just by different methods. Is our suicide problem worse because they’re so frequently committed with guns?

I think it’s fair to concede that the US has a violence problem, but it’s unreasonable to start throwing solutions at it until we know what the actual causation is. We can’t have a reasonable discussion about causation when we muddy the data by using statistics on “violent gun deaths” where 2/3 of those numbers are suicide.

I, of all people, Mr. Shall Not Be Infringed, is open to having a discussion about gun regulation, but I, like many on my side of the table, flat refuse to give an inch until we can have an honest, reasonable discussion.

And here’s a perfect example of why we cannot. Don Lemon’s approach to a “reasonable discussion” of the issue starts when those who disagree with his position “shut up”, because he “doesn’t want to hear it”.
I wasn’t necessarily disagreeing with you, I quoted your post because it was the OP, and the sentiment I wanted to respond to.

My point was: maybe it is our “gun culture” that creates so much “gun violence”, and I’m open to talking about real solutions, even ones that I might personally find distasteful, but I don’t think we’re ready to have the type of honest discussion I’d need in order to be willing to “give an inch”.

It’s foolish and dangerous to concede anything in a discussion where the points of debate are intentionally misleading figures like the ubiquitous one about the US’s “gun violence” figures being inflated 200%, by including suicides, in order to drive one side’s agenda.
 
#19 ·
Monkey, maybe you missed it. HT is unanimous in its opinion that Canada and the US are so similar that the only difference is our 2nd amendment, and our right to defend ourselves with arms.
 
#20 ·
Can you point out where anyone has said that? Your snarky comments just aren't needed at this time.
 
#27 ·
Gun control in the USA is quite a moot subject and discussing it only serves to enflame emotions on both sides of that fence. There are something like 300 Million Guns (estimated, no one knows for sure) in circulation in the USA. You could try and ban them or whatever but they will never ever go away and pointless to think that anyone could stop the sale of them legal or not.

The 10 countries with the most guns
  1. USA - 112.6 guns per 100 residents
  2. Serbia - 75.6
  3. Yemen - 54.8
  4. Switzerland - 45.7
  5. Cyprus - 36.4
  6. Saudi Arabia - 35
  7. Iraq - 34.2
  8. Uruguay - 31.8
  9. Sweden - 31.6
  10. Norway - 31.3
The 10 countries with the least guns
  1. Tunisia - 0.1 guns per 100 residents
  2. Timor-Leste - 0.3
  3. Solomon Islands - 0.4
  4. Ghana - 0.4
  5. Ethiophia - 0.4
  6. Singapore - 0.5
  7. Indonesia - 0.5
  8. Fiji - 0.5
  9. Eritrea - 0.5
  10. Bangladesh - 0.5
While it tops the charts when it comes to gun ownership, the US actually ranks 11th in terms of firearm-related deaths, with 10.54 annually per 100,000 of its population.

Ahead of it are a slew of Latin American countries: Honduras (top with 67.18), Venezuela, Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, Brazil, Panama and Uruguay. Swaziland and Jamaica complete the top 10. The highest European country is Montenegro, at 12th with 8.91. The UK is among the lowest ranked countries with 0.23.

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#30 ·
I concede too,

In reading a few different political forums over the years, there are some things that will never change and three of them are;

1) We will all ways have uncontrolled immigration into the United States.

2) All persons within these uncontrolled boarders will have access to guns.

3) We will never balance the federal budget or eliminate the federal debt.

Right, wrong, indifferent these will not change.
 
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#31 ·
I concede too,

In reading a few different political forums over the years, there are some things that will never change and three of them are;

1) We will all ways have uncontrolled immigration into the United States.

2) All persons within these uncontrolled boarders will have access to guns.

3) We will never balance the federal budget or eliminate the federal debt.

Right, wrong, indifferent these will not change.
and that right there takes the cake. So why take away the law abiding citizens right to defend themselves when the criminals are going to get anything they want. You have a rape whistle and they have a gun. Police will find your body next to a whistle.
 
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