I caught my trustpasser!!!!!

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by kasilofhome, Jul 29, 2006.

  1. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    Ok, the land is post. The land has a fence on My Private road thru MY land.
    This road is quite aways from the house. (all one parcel)
    Only 2 people including us live on the main road (which is also My Road till it gets to my one neighbor.

    To improve the road some work was done and now the whole streech of land is reachable by ATVs not just via the road.

    I Planted wild flowers and wheat 2 years in a row. This year has been really bad because an ATV has been driving on it. I put up clues. I talked to my one neighbor. I mentioned to the one Group of 70 people who live in the woods who walk on the Main road how mad I was about my plantings. (note it is a commune in the woods with 2 main leaders) I have never had problems with them.

    well today we trapped who ever it was on the road. for hours they avoided comming close enought for me to ID. Well after many hours of this I started blocking the part of the road where they only had one way to go. Big trees came down. Once they saw (they watched from a distance) that I was going to block them in in such away where they would have to come out but foot only. (have to leave the ATV behind) They did approach. It was the Leader of the Group in the woods. Hauling off wood chips.

    Bad Man "Guess I'm not suppose to be here"
    Me "the clue was the sign"
    Bad Man "I always have gotten my compost material from here, didn't know it was a problem"
    Me "well I did put up the gate to the road with a Lock"
    Bad man "I don't see a problem"
    Me "Well, you bypasted the gate and made a trail for lots of people Now and we have been dealinig with that fact"
    Bad man "I won't do it anymore"

    Note had the man asked about it I would have given him a KEY. I never knew who it was all that matters is that someone was on my land with out my knowledge doing what ever. Someone could put up a meth lab and I would face the music"

    Because of this they can not use it even if they ask. I do not want sneeky people making use of my land. Since I had complained to him (truly--thinking that it was a stranger he could have come clean, I would truly have given him the key" Note the one neighbor was in the same boat. I complanined about gun shots and the mother said my son might be the one let me check. It was him and so now they call first or leave a marker on the gate if I am not home They now have a key" Simple, peaceful and I know what is happening. It was respectfull. This was NOT.

    I liked the man till today. There are 70 people he handles in the woods so I am a little concerned.

    Should I send a letter to them? Should I have the police contact them?
     
  2. sellis

    sellis Well-Known Member

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    call the law on him , he has violated not only your trust but destroyed part of your crop , when they go to talk to him it just may shake him up and make him think the next time he crosses somebodys land to maybe ask first and respect your land and crops .
     

  3. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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  4. james dilley

    james dilley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Use the legal Process to protect what you have to.
     
  5. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    Commune Yes - Mental health land trust. I do not know much they sorta keep to them self and I never had a problem with them walking on the road. He and his wife are the leaders. I know that many of the people that are not walking around are under alot of care.

    I hear a lot of rumers. The stories are crazy. We meet with the leader as he was walking and I found out that he is the leader. I spoke with someone at the mental health office. Yea that's them and yea that man and his wife run it. That's all I know. When I saw him MANY times and SPOKE with him many times I did not know how to ask "So are you one of the sane one" I have tried to find out first hand but they are loners (all 70 of them - Number come form state info and they claimed it too)
     
  6. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    And They are the ones to have GIVEN me the wheat seed. They givth and takith. I do not want problems.
     
  7. susieM

    susieM Well-Known Member

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    Give him another chance. Or ask him to work to pay off the debt.
     
  8. DixyDoodle

    DixyDoodle stranger than fiction

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    I hear ya, we had the same problem here. A dirt trail beside the house that just invites trespassers on those dreaded ATV's. We finally put up a gate to go with the fence and still caught someone undoing the chain to go through. The response, "Oh I guessed I should have asked first..." Do ya think? Guess he figured the chained gate and large NO TRESPASSING sign was meant for us? A lock went on the gate after that. It's pretty bad when you have to do that, but it did stop them.

    There's a commune near you? Creepy. But if you had mentioned to that group already about how you were angry someone was trespassing, and STILL you caught someone (the Leader, no less, what a good example that sets!) then keep your eyes peeled. He might try a more sneaky way of getting in.

    BTW, what's a "metal health land trust"? Do you mean it's a place to treat people with severe mental disorders (you said some were on 'house arrest')? Why is it out in the middle of the woods, in nowhere land? I would be really concerned about them wandering around my property, but then I have kids too. Too too creepy!
     
  9. bobcarver

    bobcarver New Member

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    Give him a chance to honor his word. Some boats you should not be in a hurry to rock and y'all will be living next to each other for quite some time (Unless your lucky) Groups like that are scary, especially if under the control of one man. That kind of control feeds egos and often gives a sense of power that can be dangerous. Take care and hold the line you drew. On more trespass go all out.
     
  10. gilberte

    gilberte Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you live there full time or is this a weekend retreat? If the latter and you p*** these people off you are going to have serious problems. I assume this man and the rest of the 70 do not own the property they are on? They don't work and are there 24/7? Try to work it out at this stage, hopefully you won't have to take any further steps.
     
  11. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    1. I live here 24/7
    2. In Alaska We have Mental Health Land.
    A. Many years ago When AK was a territory Mentally ill people were gathered and shipped to the lower fory eight. There was a Lawsuit in the 70's and there was a Fund set up for mentally ill using the sale of Land. The Fund allows for the support of persons unable to care for themselves.
    B. From the Very little factual info that I have found about this group is from an old artical in a newspaper.
    1. Someone (name not important and I can't remember it) was a councler in Anchorage. He had persons who had a hard time dealing with people and it was not going to get better. He came up with an idea that if these people gathered together were everone was in the same boat and If they had family support and if they were not around people then the issues that those people were dealing with for which the public was dealing with would not be a problem.
    2 They got someoneto buy really cheap land and these peope did move out there they LIVED in 3 large Native American Teepees. for about 3 years soild. I guess no one died durring this or eles that was it would have been shut down.
    3. They live off the land and eat only grains and plant life. The leaders have mentioned how there is too much many chemicals in food these days so they grow their own. Barley and wheat. They over time have enlarged there borders and now have 80 acrers.
    4. Their very big reqest in that they are not bothered with. They do not allow unwanted persons near them. they have grown and some of the town people are scared of them. Some of the town people feel that they are using the goverment funds to the point of abuse.

    Other Facts. I know that many of the town people are scared of Mental health Issues. I have dealt with family members that do have some problems. My husband is bi polar and one of the many reason we moved from Anchorage to here (with out even knowing of the group) was because his moods were becoming worse when he suffered a major back injury and since his positive times of his life he was down here we did move here.

    In the 3 years we have been here the leader and his wife learned to feel comfortable enought to look at us as they walked by, Then wave, then it was Hello's. Then it was exchange of Names. we had reached apoint where we were just begining to talk. They asked about why we were clearing we told them. Farming. thats when I learned how much farming they do.

    Issues I would like to address
    Since they had made use of the land for so many years and since there has been so much talk on this board about persons using ones land and then legally gaining the rights to the land. I want to prevent that from happening.

    Here is a thought.
    A Trooper last year came by left his card in reguards to illegal hunters
    Contact him.
    Have him go to the group (it is said that it is not safe to go on their property with out an invite and escorted don't know how true that is but I do not care to risk it thus the trooper
    Have the trooper explain what trustpassing is.
    Have the trooper hand them a contract that would be good for ONE year For 100 Dollars (payment for damages but a nicer way to be reimburst -I would put up a better gate)
    There would be rules Spelled out that should they fail to follow the contract would be voided.

    Main rule is I must know when they are on the land
    That they would be allowed only to take the wood chips
    That they would only use the trail and the gate.

    This land is Prime hunting land with trophy moose on it I do not want any person on the land during huntiing season.

    The contact could be renewed each year (thus forcing them to communicate thus allowing Us to ask dircect questions and to learn first hand about these people.

    Do you think that this would work?
     
  12. Terri

    Terri Singletree & Weight Loss & Permaculture Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Asking $10 would be much more neighborly, and would accomplish the same legal and social goals.
     
  13. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    I understand the 10 dollar thing but I was thinking of the 1/3 mile path of wildflower destroyed that was planted to prevent land erroision from the bare land left by the road improvement. (the road used to be 22 inches under water for part of the year) Getting the main road driveable (walkable was quite and expence) The other neighbor truley helps to maintain it along with me. It is plowed and gravel and dirt work done now that we own it. Plowing by the other neighbor.
     
  14. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    Also they will help persons but alway for cash and they are NOT cheap about their labor. Perhaps they could build the gate. Right now it is many poles with a long cable and lock on it. They have person who are great craftmen. They own the Largest Log cabin building in Alaska maybe even the country. They are far from poor. 70 times 1,200 person per month in state aid.

    Also the amount of wood chips removed amounts to many truck loads. Wood chips is an Item that I need and use. Low bush cranberry destroyed.

    Plus my time. We played a cat and mouse game for a few hours. He hide out waiting for me to go. It was only because I was blocking him in that he came forward. He made me mad because of that and his entitlement air. He never even said sorry. then there is the issue of how NO ONE IS TO BE ON their Land. The other neighbor did express boundry problem with them to me. How they made a trail accross their land and kept it up for some time the owners could not get the people to even look at them let alone answer or talk to them as they were tresspassing. Once they aquired the ajoining lot they had legal access to the path (which first neighbor put in)which became the road That is 80% on my land.
     
  15. RedneckPete

    RedneckPete Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me like you’ve made up your mind and want blood. Why bother asking for advice?

    Personally, now that you’ve spoken to him, I’d let it go and see if the problem continues. A few handfuls of roofing nails spread on the ATV path wouldn’t hurt either.

    Give him a chance to honor his word. Getting riled up about the wood chips that you were prepared to give him for free “had the man asked about it” is pointless. How can you charge him for the seed that he gave to you?

    It seems to me like the whole story isn’t being told.

    Pete
     
  16. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

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    That was a weird post, Pete.

    First you say she wants blood (I don't see that at all!) and then you suggest she spread roofing nails in the path?

    You would have to be really careful with a tribe of mentally ill people, IMO.

    Setting boundaries, as kasil is trying to work out for herself, is going to be very necessary.
     
  17. kasilofhome

    kasilofhome Well-Known Member

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    I do not want blood and I do not want to lose my land because someone openly makes use of my land and I do nothing to stop it. This land is very important to me. The reason for a contract was and idea which would allow me to control my land. They have the same amount of land that I have Even with their 70 people that makes for more than one acre person.

    It was discussed between our neighbor some time ago that they felt that they openly tresspast on their land (they will walk right by you say 6 feet away and not even acknowledge you just a handful have ever spoken to anyone.) I was told that the wife attempted to confront the tresspassing on her land and as she on her land was saying things to the point "Do you know that you just walked thru my garden? "excuse me but do you mind not make a trail thru my newly planted grass" Ect. that they just would walk right by her as if she was not there. which is why liz thought that perhaps since at that time they were force with a 5.5 mile hike to the beach or tresspass that if they just kept it up that in time they would have the right. They (we call the the walkers) snatched up the only lot that bordered their land and liz's driveway which becomes the road and that is the only reason that they no longer walk thru liz's back yard.

    I am trying to own up to my responcablity of owning the land. What if unknown to me someone is there using for any reason and my son shoots someone with an arrow (he is just learning and he has no control yet so I have him do it on the sixty side away from the livestock.

    I am also frustraighted for they ill feelings for which he showed towards my husband and I. He was out of line. We have every right to use our land as we choose as long as it is legal. It is legal to ban tresspassers. it is legal control the activities on ones land.

    Since he and I had been talking. Since he knew that we owned the land. Since he comiserated with us over the destruction of the wild flowers (which he was the one doing it) Since he claimed to be surprized that tresspassing could be a "problem" why did he hide out on the trails for a few hours watching me and what I was doing.

    He hide because he did not want to be caught. Plus since we both were comizerating about the bold tresspassing problems we both face he knew it was a problem. The first year he asked if we would be hunting on the land. They do not believe in meat and hoped that we would stop the people from hunting on it. I told him that I did not allow strangers hunting on the land but that my father in law would really enjoy the game.

    I do not want to spread nails or cause harm to anyone. That would be wrong and it might just cost me the land.
     
  18. KindredSpirit

    KindredSpirit Well-Known Member

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    kasilofhome, I may have overlooked this somewhere, but do they actually live on your land or just use your road access? I think what you are worried about is "adverse possession" if they are actually using your land for anything other than a joint drive. Here is a brief description of adverse possession:

    "Traditional common law provided a method for someone to obtain title to land through use. The common law rules for adverse possession have been codified under both federal and state statutes. A typical statute allows a person to get title to land from the actual owner simply by using the land, out in the open for all to see. For example, your neighbor built a fence on your land with the intention of taking the property, paid property taxes, and you knew about it but did nothing. If this continued for a period of time set by state law, your neighbor may be able to claim this property as his/her own. The theory is that, by not disputing your neighbor’s use of your property through a lawsuit, you, as the actual owner have abandoned your rights to the property. There are several elements needed for adverse possession to result in title:

    The length of time required for adverse possession in title varies - it could be as short as a few years or could run for twenty years or more. Typically public entities must establish a longer period of possession than individuals. Some states have adopted a rule which requires the adverse possessor to pay taxes each year on the land.

    The possession must be open for all to see.

    The possession must be exclusive to him or her (e.g., the fence in the above example, a driveway, road, etc.)

    The possession must be hostile to the actual owner of the land.

    To gain title to land through adverse possession requires strict compliance with the law, but can have dramatic impact upon land ownership rights.

    An encroachment could result in title to your property being transferred to an adverse possessor. Under these circumstances, you might have to bring a lawsuit for trespass in order to prevent your neighbor from getting title to your land through adverse possession.

    If you own land, it is important that you do not "sleep on your rights" since you could lose ownership of the land."


    I don't know how this applies from state to state, you may want to research that. If they are actually living on your land you have good reason to be concerned.
     
  19. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't read all the replies, these threads tend to drift these days....

    I'd just let it be at this point, hope I made my point & see what happens. Taking it fruther right now might tend to bring some problems back your way?

    If anything else happens, then I'd follow it with sherriff help real quick.

    That's just me, there are many ways to deal with it, no total right or wrong way to go here.

    --->Paul
     
  20. gilberte

    gilberte Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does the group have some sort of governmental council or leadership (other than the trespassing man) you could appeal to for a solution?