[big rockpile]

Ok very seldom have I paid rent. Don't count but I had one place given to me. I have bought places for Back Taxes and most time now days Owner Finance.

My first Farm we bought putting my earnings in savings and my wife at the time paying our Bills.

big rockpile

 

[AmericanStand]

I've seen a lot of college degree snobbery in this thread. I find it interesting how much some people value a degree over skills. I find it interesting how much value some people think people adds.

 

[Nevada]

I used to buy & sell properties at eBay, so I thought I had a good handle on acquiring real property. But when I participate in threads like this my advice is often less than appreciated. What I learned was that people looking for affordable property want pristine property located in pricey areas, but they still want it cheap.

Inexpensive land is available, but you have to go where the inexpensive land is. If, for example, you live in Virginia and aren't willing to leave Virginia then you'll have to find a way to afford Virginia land. But there could be land with the attributes you require in other states for only a few hundred per acre.

I'm currently looking for affordable wooded mountain property to retire on. I know that I'll need to leave the area where I currently live, but that's ok. I"m looking for properties mainly in Colorado & New Mexico. But I have to be flexible. I know that there is no way I can raise a million dollars to buy a place in Vail, Aspen, Telluride, or Breckenridge. That's just not realistic (for me anyway). But that doesn't mean I can't buy a terrific mountain property. I just need to remain flexible and look for more affordable property.

 

[HermitJohn]

If you want cheap, you usually have to live where jobs are scarce, climate is very harsh, or its too far to commute. Occasionally you can find property cheap for some other serious problem, like inaccessability or problems meeting code like an approved septic. Usually very expensive to deal with unless you can somehow fly under the radar and put up with the problem.

In my area, only cheap land would be in areas with no utilities and 4wd only access. Even then prices propped up by rich folk wanting a convenient hunting camp or getaway in the wilderness. More expensive would be property in more rural counties too far to easily commute to where the jobs are.

 

[Nevada]

If you want cheap, you usually have to live where jobs are scarce, climate is very harsh, or its too far to commute.

That's one big advantage of being retired, job availability isn't really an issue.

 

[Alice In TX/MO]

To the person who asked for full disclosure, here is 40 years of following my plan.

PINCH PENNIES.

Work.

Pay off homestead ASAP.

Don't buy fancy cars every two years.

Buy low, sell a bit higher. Or buy low, pay cash or pay off ASAP, do the work yourself, and rent it out. Use income for next purchase.

Repeat.

Not rocket science, and I'm not posting my tax return or providing other personal info here. If I could figure out those basics, you can, too.

If you can't figure it out, I would recommend Dave Ramsey's book and classes.

By the way, I have 40 acres and a house for sale in southern Missouri. I will make a modest profit. Asking price is $119,500. Prices are low there.

 

[ognend]

I've seen a lot of college degree snobbery in this thread. I find it interesting how much some people value a degree over skills. I find it interesting how much value some people think people adds.

It is quite the opposite with the college degrees. There are plenty of them around but they are not worth the toilet paper they are printed on. Why? 'Cause degrees in USA have monetary value and they are a money making machine for the education industry (industry, really?). When I say "educated professional" I actually mean EDUCATED PROFESSIONAL in both senses of the combined words

 

[ognend]

To the person who asked for full disclosure, here is 40 years of following my plan.

PINCH PENNIES.

Work.

Pay off homestead ASAP.

Don't buy fancy cars every two years.

Buy low, sell a bit higher. Or buy low, pay cash or pay off ASAP, do the work yourself, and rent it out. Use income for next purchase.

Repeat.

Not rocket science, and I'm not posting my tax return or providing other personal info here. If I could figure out those basics, you can, too.

If you can't figure it out, I would recommend Dave Ramsey's book and classes.

By the way, I have 40 acres and a house for sale in southern Missouri. I will make a modest profit. Asking price is $119,500. Prices are low there.

Meh, generic advice. Again, no disclosure. I have read a bunch of these books and articles. Usually the ones with fat bank accounts write them when they "go off grid"... Not saying you are one of them, don't take it personally

 

[ognend]

Inexpensive land is available, but you have to go where the inexpensive land is. If, for example, you live in Virginia and aren't willing to leave Virginia then you'll have to find a way to afford Virginia land. But there could be land with the attributes you require in other states for only a few hundred per acre.

I'm currently looking for affordable wooded mountain property to retire on. I know that I'll need to leave the area where I currently live, but that's ok. I"m looking for properties mainly in Colorado & New Mexico. But I have to be flexible. I know that there is no way I can raise a million dollars to buy a place in Vail, Aspen, Telluride, or Breckenridge. That's just not realistic (for me anyway). But that doesn't mean I can't buy a terrific mountain property. I just need to remain flexible and look for more affordable property.

Been there done that. I agree on the Virginia comments. But, you actually are confirming my point from another thread - it is not the land of equal opportunity. Why? 'Cause good land is already owned and if YOU want to own it, better find a way to become rich...It is a finite resource...

You can live in any state you want if you have skills that are in demand and will be in demand in the next 20+ years. So long as you have internet, that is...

There are many considerations when looking at land, price is only one of them. Can you get water, internet, access, install septic. Can you grow food? Are you in a fire prone zone? Drought prone? Hurricane/flooding prone? So on and so on...

 

[Terri]

I live in the breadbasket of the nation and my land is *VERY* good, in every aspect. Also it was not expensive. But, to buy land like mine, for the price I paid, you WOULD have to move.

 

[Hiro]

I've seen a lot of college degree snobbery in this thread. I find it interesting how much some people value a degree over skills. I find it interesting how much value some people think people adds.

It is quite the opposite with the college degrees. There are plenty of them around but they are not worth the toilet paper they are printed on. Why? 'Cause degrees in USA have monetary value and they are a money making machine for the education industry (industry, really?). When I say "educated professional" I actually mean EDUCATED PROFESSIONAL in both senses of the combined words

They must not have included a course in Irony 101 at your educational institution......

 

[Alice In TX/MO]

I am not going off the grid. I like modern conveniences.

I am, however, building a SIPs house that will require very little heating or cooling. Think of it as a YETI house. Years of saving on electric bills are in my future. More money in my pocket.

Really, you don't need full disclosure of anyone's journey. As mentioned above, Dave Ramsey has it laid out in his book and classes. Don't borrow money for anything other than your primary residence. Don't accumulate any credit card debt. Save money. Have goals and a plan. Build a large nest egg. Spend less money than you make.

We had done all of these before he wrote the book. It a lifestyle choice.

That's it.

 

[ognend]

I live in the breadbasket of the nation and my land is *VERY* good, in every aspect. Also it was not expensive. But, to buy land like mine, for the price I paid, you WOULD have to move.

Yeah but that would be moving JUST for the land, no? For most people the equation is cost, climate, work, amenities, doctors, schools, commute, landscape, views, LAND, so on and so on.

 

[ognend]

I am not going off the grid. I like modern conveniences.

I am, however, building a SIPs house that will require very little heating or cooling. Think of it as a YETI house. Years of saving on electric bills are in my future. More money in my pocket.

Really, you don't need full disclosure of anyone's journey. As mentioned above, Dave Ramsey has it laid out in his book and classes. Don't borrow money for anything other than your primary residence. Don't accumulate any credit card debt. Save money. Have goals and a plan. Build a large nest egg. Spend less money than you make.

We had done all of these before he wrote the book. It a lifestyle choice.

That's it.

We have done all of those. Earn more than you spend, pay off the credit card at the end of the month, don't buy a new car off the show floor etc. etc. etc. All good advice. However, for us the break came when we bought a foreclosure, renovated it and sold it for a big profit. That made a huge difference. For a lot of people that is the difference between accumulating crumbs and actually having choices early in life and having choices when they are 65...

Full disclosure lends credibility to the person writing the book or giving advice. People quote Joel Salatin all the time but did he really buy that farm at market price? Did he pay rent to his parents while living on their farm and earning in town? All things that make a HUGE difference in the starting point. If the former were true (that he bought his parent's farm for next to nothing and lived prior to that on it for nothing), 80% of the people would not even bother reading the book? Why? 'Cause how many of us have a situation like that?

Or, what about prices of land in his area adjusted for inflation? 40 years ago land may have been cheap there compared to local income. Now it is like gold. Someone moving to the area today could not afford more than 3 acres. Joel has 550 - it would take a multi-millionaire to come in and buy what he has, just to run a few cows...

 

[ognend]

They must not have included a course in Irony 101 at your educational institution......

What makes you say that? I never claimed anywhere that you should get a degree from any institution at any price. In fact, if you remember, I said college is for learning, not for delivering pizza while you are getting the piece of paper. To each their own...

 

[Terri]

Yeah but that would be moving JUST for the land, no? For most people the equation is cost, climate, work, amenities, doctors, schools, commute, landscape, views, LAND, so on and so on.

It covers everything. My house in town on an acre is worth $75,000 and then I have 5.7 acres farther out. My home has 3 bedrooms, a chain link fenced yard, a quiet neighborhood, etc.

I use roadrunner, though Google Fiber is trying to move into the area. The crime rate is low which is a big reason why we bought it. We actually have 2 parcels of land: the one we live on was 20 minutes to my work and less to town: the other one is 5 minutes to a smallish town. I have MS and my doctor is one of the finer neurologists in the nation, and he is 30 minutes away. My school district is one of the best in the state and Kansas ranks in the upper middle for the quality of the schools in the nation. I am not sure what amenities you want but Kansas City is not far away and it is pretty quick to get there by the interstates. Views. Well, Kansas is flat but there are nice bluffs not that far away. And, between us and town there is a park that has been called "The jewel of the Johnson county parks" and with very good reason as it is VERY large and the lake offers great fishing and boating. PArt of the lake is against forested bluffs and that part has been left wild except for a hiking trail.

When we bought the 5.7 acres it was a 20 minute drive to a town with enough work to offer and it cost us $29,000. It was cheaper because we knew piped in water would not be available for 3 years and a creek crossing was needed before a house went in: this dropped the price by maybe $5000 total or a bit more.

I grew up in California where land is both high and of very high agricultural quality, but almost all of it is priced as housing land. I did have to move to find something more affordable.

If you do not want to pay the prices in your area for good land with all the amenities, you might have to move to find better.

As for Salatin you are correct about him not saying what he paid for the farm or what he paid on rent. At the time it irritated me but I CAN understand not wanting to talk about personal finances. I ALSO decided that it did not matter, as when we cut our spending to what we were comfortable with we had $150 per month to play with and regardless o what Salatin had that was what WE had.

So, I got out the pencils and the papers and I put those college classes in ag management to work. Using my current base of knowledge I should be able to break even working land with payments of $150 per month, with my marketing skills being the restricting factor, and the land would grow far more than I knew how to market. So, while I looked for land on weekends I also sold baked goods at the Farmer's Market to increase my marketing skills.

Then I put a down payment on land with the money I had saved up at $150 per month and that was the week I got sick. Oh, well!

The land you describe Is out there, but I am pretty sure you would have to move to the areas that have it. I am aware that land in both Virginias as well as Florida is expensive.

 

[Evons hubby]

I've had good luck buying suitable land by dealing with real estate speculators and owner financing. You don't get the bargains you might if you had a warsh tub full of money this way but it gets you where you want to be. My first place here in metcalfe county Kentucky was part of a three hundred fifty acre farm being resold by some speculators after having it logged. I picked out the forty acres I liked, signed a land contract obligating myself to $10k at $150 a month. Sold my vw van for $600 bucks and used that for a down payment. Found an old timey house I could make livable for keeping the yard mowed as rent until I got our cabin built. Well, built enough to move into... Just a board floor, roof and walls framed at first, wiring and interior came later. Never did get plumbing in. Life was interesting in those days, but I made it work. Living within ones means is the key to financial questions every time.

 

[ognend]

@Terri and Yvonne's hubby:

I did not mean to say these things are impossible. I suppose I was writing in the context of the "other" thread we had going about equal opportunity. I suppose I was also writing in the context of addressing all the people who use books written by folks such as Joel Salatin, who started a whole movement based on non-disclosure. That is what kind of irritates me a bit, that people would take advice from someone who is not willing to disclose fully how they made a go of it.

I like the book by Jean Martin Fortier called "The Market Gardener". It is one of the rare books that describes the whole process and if I remember correctly, it does say freely that they spent winters living in a tipi in Quebec!! Yikes...

That I can believe and it does relate to your average Joe Shmoe. What irritates me is when some sad soul who works in a cubicle and yearns for a better life in the country, gets their ideas of making a go from books where the author was a high-level corporate shrill for 20 years in some big city and then they decided to go farm - they will never admit to that in the book, though, making it sound as if everyone has an equal starting point...

 

[Terri]

I guess I never felt the need to know how much an author spends to feed his family of 14, because I do not have that many kids so it is largely irrelevant what the authors spend on living expenses. IMHO.

The only numbers that really interest me is the costs and such involved in the homestead, and not what he spends to maintain his lifestyle unless it is somehow related to the homestead. For example, one lady who was selling eggs, firewood, and vegetables would include in her income the old hens from her laying flock, which I thought was fair. She had a flock of 50 hens, which comes out to 1 stewing chicken per week. I was content that she showed what it cost to support the flock, how much cash she brought in, plus the value of 50 stewing hens.

She had a well thought out plan: she bought wooded land. As she cleared the woods with a chainsaw she sold the trees as firewood, which she delivered to the buyer. The cleared land was put into vegetables, which she sold at the farmer's market along with the furniture she repaired and the eggs. She had the benefit of selling at an indoor farmer's market, which meant she could sell year round.

She did give the gross income, but she did not give hard numbers for her living expenses, though as she was a single woman and she said she used the vegetables and wood that were too ugly to sell, her living expenses were probably very low indeed, especially as she paid off her small home by working in town until her debts were paid. I do know she could only afford very cheap land, and that the home she had built was very small.

There is always a reason that cheap land is cheap. In her case the forest was far too young to cut for timber and far too large to easily clear, as the tree trunks were 4 inches in diameter. So she cleared her land a bit at a time with a chainsaw, and sold the wood as firewood. Bent or funky wood she used herself in her wood burning stove. The fact that she frugally uses what she cannot sell tells me that her living expenses are very low. In my case my land was cheap because drinkable water was not easily available, and because the creek that I intended to water my berries with would have to be crossed before a house was built.

I decided that for the $5000 reduction in price when compared to similar properties I could live with buying a pump at harbor freight to irrigate with, and then I would not need water until piped in water was available. .

As for equality, there is no nation on earth that can offer true equality to its citizens. That means that some of us have to work harder than others. That's life.

 

[Shrek]

35 years ago while still living in my first apartment , I crossed paths with a landowner who had sold all the top soil off of 17 acres and lamented that although he had made good money from the soil, the land that was scrapped down to hard pan was only good for a parking lot and too far in the country for a shopping center.

At the time, decent land in that area was worth about $1500 an acre but his Mars bare acreage was practically worthless.

I offered him $6000 and he talked me up to $8400 for the stripped land and even laughed at me.

15 years later after I had the property zoned as a green waste dump and my partners and I had acquired equipment to move and grind storm dropped trees and limbs cleared from roadways where road crews in the area could dump , he quit laughing.

On that property the crews maintained pine mulch piles for sale and composted the wastes not suitable for mulch.

The total reclamation and restoration of the topsoil by both anaerobic decomposition and aerobic worm and bug composting continued for 12 years or so after I let the other partners buy me out for my investment and decent profit.

The last time I saw that scrub property , the partner who bought us all out one at a time as our interest waned in the partnership for less than $100k total had a tract now worth about $400,000 and had plans to sub divide it into a subdivision .