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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Ok, think thread is about wound up. In original question when I referred to sharp knives, I meant more in terms of a knife thats supposed to be sharp, not about the degree of sharpness. I let thread digress. And pretty much homesteader types are going to use knives more than most people unless typical suburbanite happens to be hobbyist chef. or such.

Now remember my $1 box dull knives. Well the one that caught my eye, mostly being most outrageous was this, I call it the holey copper one.



The knife advertised as "never needs sharpening." Well the one in the box dull knives must not got the memo. So first I renewed edge like it came from factory following their bevels (obvious nobody had tried sharpening it). Meh, cracked carrots not cut them. And it was crazy light weight so required lot force. Not sure why people want featherweight kitchen knives, but each to their own. I want a little heft in anything bigger than a paring knife.

So narrowed edge angle. Feels much sharper but sure its also lot more delicate edge. As cheap as the thing was made, I wondered if edge would fold. But it held and cuts much better. Kept at this sharpness, probably be ok for somebody that didnt use a sharp knife much. Use it a lot, you will need to sharpen it a lot. I found myself trying to use a pinch grip on it only to find my fingers pinching the hole nearest the handle. It was weird. Sharpened, its an ok glorified cheese knife, not much more than that. The large holes does work to keep slices raw veggies and cheese from sticking to the blade. The copper "non-stick" coating seems to help a bit too. Say again this knife will need frequent sharpening to be useful and seriously its dollar store kind of quality so even paying a $1 is being generous.
 

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I HAE to buy knives, as they all claim to be/stay sharp. And, when every knife claims to be razor sharp the end results is that no info is given.

I LOVE a high quality knife, but it is very hard to figure out which knives are high quality. or not. Price alone is not an indicator
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
Far as gimmi
I HAE to buy knives, as they all claim to be/stay sharp. And, when every knife claims to be razor sharp the end results is that no info is given.

I LOVE a high quality knife, but it is very hard to figure out which knives are high quality. or not. Price alone is not an indicator

Lot times its not so much how long they stay actually sharp, its how long they feel sharp enough to use. Thinner blades will feel sharp longer assuming you find one that starts sharp. The geometry of the knife is just as important if not more so than the sharpness of the edge. I mentioned my experiment with that junk serrated Farberware paring knife. Ground off the serrations, then gave it a full flat grind, so full bevel both sides from spine to edge. Then sharpened the edge. I am still pretty amaze at results. It went from a throw away to very pleasant paring knife. I am curious how long it will continue feeling so sharp since its not great steel.

Now look at a four star Zwilling-Henckels chef knife. Its $100 new.


Notice its also a full flat grind, and also distal taper from tip back to handle. Ok steel but nothing super special despite claims of "ice hardening" It will feel sharper longer because of very superior geometry of the blade and its great balance. By way you can get a used "dull" one for like $20 on Ebay. Its a bargain at $20. Very nice knife. I cant imagine giving $100 for any kitchen knife. Thats kinda nuts just to cut food. As say that large Farberware chef knife out of my $1 box of dull knives, once I thinned the blade a bit, and sharpened it, is actually pretty pleasant to use. It would need lot more work to match the Zwilling in cutting ability, but its pleasant enough, cuts carrots, doesnt crack them. Still sharp after a month. My guess treated nicely it will stay sharp for several months, course dont know that. Go back and watch that fun little youtube video I posted link in this thread, the guy that buys a 99cent thrift store knife, sharpens it and it outperforms a dull high end knife. Seriously the real way to have a sharp knife is to sharpen it. Dont pay the moon for some super hard steel that is supposed to stay sharp for 5 year. or something. Some of those kind knives tend to have edge chip, they tend to be bit more brittle.

Oh the granddaddy of the stays sharp knife is the Mac Original. Set sold for $20 back in 1960s. Made in Japan. See some comments of people that say it stayed sharp 30 years without sharpening. And super easy to sharpen on bottom of coffee mug.... Well if its super easy to sharpen, its not some super hard steel. Its good quality probably lot like the German knives, but like them not super hard. Its the design, its very thin blade and its full flat grind and distal taper. Sound familiar?



The current pop fad knife is the KIWI. Made by small company in Thailand. Again thin blade knife, way softer steel than average, but also very easy to sharpen to very sharp edge. Think I mentioned link reviewing it earlier. Cost about $10 here or $2 in Thailand. People love them but assuming they take almost constant touch up to keep sharp, though thinness will make them feel sharp longer than they are actually sharp.



As I also mentioned, the knives I have seen that held edge longest were kitchen knives made by USA company called Cattaraugus. Carbon steel or some were chromed carbon steel. But hardened far harder than most and suspect vanadium or other additives to steel to toughen it, and thus difficult to sharpen. But they will hold an edge for an incredible long time considering the era they were made. The company went out of business in 1963. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattaraugus_Cutlery_Company You see any modern ones with that name and its just a name. They did not make any stainless steel kitchen knives. Oh and its not unusual to find some that have NEVER been sharpened. I figure cause of the difficulty. Not sure if they sold them that way or what. Might been remaining stock when they went out of business, knives that just never were finished for retail sale.

Oh and never believe the hype. More lies told to sell knives than to sell cars. Best advice, find a knife that is comfortable for you to use, then learn how to sharpen it. All knives get dull. All knives can be sharpened.

Oh another low end knife I ran across (dont own one) that is full flat ground and distal taper is Winco KWP-100 //www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZVUOUSW/


Good steel, same as the German knives. probably need to be sharpened new out of package. Cheap knives rarely well sharpened new out of package. I saw them while back on Amazon for $9. but they are now $13. Anyway IMHO, probably equivalent to that Victorinox NSF chef knife with the plastic handle they want $40 for. All those commercial production sanitary NSF knives not that different and all knife makers offer one, they just dont tend to market them to consumers. Another similar one called Humbee (brand sold through restaurant supply places). But its like $15. But I like the Winco, full flat grind with distal taper, unexpected in low end production knife. If I were going to buy a new chef knife, would maybe choose it. But is a gamble. Cheap knives tend to vary in tempering and other quality issues. Not as much attention paid to individual knives. Its sold as a commodity.
 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Ok, think thread is about wound up. In original question when I referred to sharp knives, I meant more in terms of a knife thats supposed to be sharp, not about the degree of sharpness. I let thread digress. And pretty much homesteader types are going to use knives more than most people unless typical suburbanite happens to be hobbyist chef. or such.

Now remember my $1 box dull knives. Well the one that caught my eye, mostly being most outrageous was this, I call it the holey copper one.



The knife advertised as "never needs sharpening." Well the one in the box dull knives must not got the memo. So first I renewed edge like it came from factory following their bevels (obvious nobody had tried sharpening it). Meh, cracked carrots not cut them. And it was crazy light weight so required lot force. Not sure why people want featherweight kitchen knives, but each to their own. I want a little heft in anything bigger than a paring knife.

So narrowed edge angle. Feels much sharper but sure its also lot more delicate edge. As cheap as the thing was made, I wondered if edge would fold. But it held and cuts much better. Kept at this sharpness, probably be ok for somebody that didnt use a sharp knife much. Use it a lot, you will need to sharpen it a lot. I found myself trying to use a pinch grip on it only to find my fingers pinching the hole nearest the handle. It was weird. Sharpened, its an ok glorified cheese knife, not much more than that. The large holes does work to keep slices raw veggies and cheese from sticking to the blade. The copper "non-stick" coating seems to help a bit too. Say again this knife will need frequent sharpening to be useful and seriously its dollar store kind of quality so even paying a $1 is being generous.
Just when you thought only low end knives were super gimmicky....

 

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My favorite knife to use daily is a cheap Wolfgang Puck red plastic handled job. It just works. It is comfortable.

One thing I don't understand is glass cutting boards. What the heck? Who thought that was a good idea?

As for inexpensive, or maybe not so inexpensive Chinese knives, I like the TUO brand off Amazon.

Thier utility and birds beak knives are incredible. They feel great in the hand.

Haven't picked up a larger one, but may this Christmas for myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
My favorite knife to use daily is a cheap Wolfgang Puck red plastic handled job. It just works. It is comfortable.
Thats all you can ask from any knife. Though you wouldnt know that from the hype those places that try to tell you the best knife. Oh I am sure some, maybe most, of those $100 to $500 knives are quite nice, but seriously claiming anything less is junk that will cut off your nose to spite your face? And truly dont get why they judge a knife on how sharp it is new out of package. I mean its been sharpened on an assembly line by automated machine as fast as possible. Its going to be sort of hit and miss, especially low end knives without much quality control. How about the testers have a pro sharpen knives to their best edge, then see how long it holds up in normal use without abusing the edge?

Factories dont hire retired gnomes to sit at bench hand honing each and every knife to its ultimate sharpness. Thats as silly as pretending knives are forged at midnight under full moon by elves in black forest using dragon breath. Those gnomes and elves are unionized and you want ultimate factory sharp knife, its going to cost you. Wont even mention expense of keeping a dragon around, they demand to be paid in gold and vestal virgins.
 

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At the very least, 2 times a day. Most often 3 or more and usually a couple different knives. I make all of our meals from scratch and we only eat out on special occasions.
 

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I use knives in the kitchen everyday.from pairing knifes to what I consider full size knife's.i think one blade is 12 to 15 inches long.and I also have 3 handheld knives sharpeners.
 

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I use sharp knives daily. Learned a few years back that dull knives are dangerous knives.

Have a set of Chicago cutlery knives from the in-laws. But my favorite is an ancient Chicago cutlery knife that holds its edge, and is always properly sharpened. (My FIL sharpens the knives when the folks come to visit.)

Today, I used the knife set to dismantle a very large wethered goat. Sharp knives are a joy to use, and make my amateur attempts at butchering look almost passable. And the proper knife for the proper job is critical. I use one knife for skinning, and yet another knife for gently teasing the backstraps off the spine.
 
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I have loads of Old Hickory knives I bought at old hardware stores, but the majority came from estate and garage sales. The high carbon isn't as pretty and shiny as the stainless steel so the people would put them out to sale. Thrift stores are a good source of cheap good quality knives as well. I have one large butcher knife that I keep separately from anything else. If I put my hand anywhere near the edge of that one I can cut myself.

Ex would dull the edges of the knives in a rapid fashion, I would occasionally pick one up and find it dull, check out the rest in the drawer and end up sharpening all of them. I would tell her but she would invariably cut herself repeatedly for the next week or two.
I have some dull knives that I can't keep sharp or have trouble sharpening. Mostly stainless. High carbon is easy to sharpen and maintain an edge.
I have the same knives, mostly bought at yard sales for a dollar or so. They are as good as my $100 knife, but not so good as my Japanese Knives.
I love the old hicory knives although the high carbon steel is not so pretty. They do sharpen though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·

No he didnt turn a $1 knife into a $300 one. But he did optimize the $1 knife into one thats all it could be. That looked like one of those old Japanese made knives sold in USA in 60s and 70s. Old Homestead or Sante Fe or similar and they are decent enough, will hold an edge. Ok, looking at handle it says REVERE so its one of Japanese knifes resold with Revereware handle. Whatever brand those big clunky cheap looking wood handles are the tipoff.

He gives it a full flat grind and greatly improves the handle. Unfortunately the comments ignored most of what he did with the full flat grind. And his comment below video that knife geometry is very important. Most are focussed on super duper steels and finely honed edge and forget everything else. Whatever its a really fun well made video.


Chef Panko says use the knife that meets your needs. A high end sushi knife not necessarily great for local butcher or the home cook. All depends what you are using it for.
 
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