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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Keep in mind, this is what they paid, not their tax rate. If you made $500K you likely paid $80,000 in taxes or if you made $500 million you paid $80 million in taxes. If you made $500 billion you paid $80 billion in taxes.

97567

How much should they have paid?

Two very interesting article on taxing the rich. It seems to suggest we want them to pay more.


 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
What tax payment makes someone pick up stakes and move their tent?

Did you read Atlas Shrugged?

The book is over 1,000 pages, even the summary is long.
 

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You are vastly underestimating...around here, self employed with 425k income, it isn't unusual to pay $95k federal taxes, $30k state income taxes, $15k property and vehicle taxes, $15k sales taxes, $8k other professional license and misc state/city fees.

So 163k/yr taxes out of 425k.

Is that the right amount...maybe...but this is before:
  • no ability to deduct education or medical expenses because too high income
  • no ability for each kid to get any subsidies for 30k/yr college tuition as ineligible for all aid
  • no ability to deduct any childcare expenses
  • no ability deduct interest on any educational loans
  • no stimulus checks
  • no state unemployment protection if get sick/disabled because self employed

So, set tax rate whatever you want but this dual system where some people pay higher taxes and lose most standard citizen financial benefits is insane.

Progressive taxation with equal benefits or flat tax with progressive benefits...but, please no, progressive taxes with progressive benefits which is what where we currently are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Progressive taxation with equal benefits or flat tax with progressive benefits...but, please no, progressive taxes with progressive benefits which is what where we currently are.
Put some color on that
 

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You are vastly underestimating...around here, self employed with 425k income, it isn't unusual to pay $95k federal taxes, $30k state income taxes, $15k property and vehicle taxes, $15k sales taxes, $8k other professional license and misc state/city fees.

So 163k/yr taxes out of 425k.

Is that the right amount...maybe...but this is before:
  • no ability to deduct education or medical expenses because too high income
  • no ability for each kid to get any subsidies for 30k/yr college tuition as ineligible for all aid
  • no ability to deduct any childcare expenses
  • no ability deduct interest on any educational loans
  • no stimulus checks
  • no state unemployment protection if get sick/disabled because self employed

So, set tax rate whatever you want but this dual system where some people pay higher taxes and lose most standard citizen financial benefits is insane.

Progressive taxation with equal benefits or flat tax with progressive benefits...but, please no, progressive taxes with progressive benefits which is what where we currently are.
I understand and agree with that but what about deductions?
 

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Saltine American
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Numbers work in mysterious ways.
The article talks about taxing wealth and our tax system is based on income.
I am not defending them, pointing out what I believe are facts.
The top 1% pays close to 45% of income taxes paid.


97577

 
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Why do we need the wealthy to pay more of their "fair share"?
Is it to give more money to central America, Iran/the Middle East, Europe, NATO, the UN, overseas gender studies, military actions and nation building? Nope, we already print money up for that.

Maybe if we tax the rich some more, just this one time, the money would go to the homeless, the poor, the disabled, the hungry, our infrastructure, energy, the education system, health care. You know, cuz we can spend the money used above on the stuff down here.

I'm checking my Vegas phone app right now for the odds.
 

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STILL not Alice
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One phrase that I find particularly abhorrent:

"Give your fair share."

Fair share of what, pray tell? And who determines what is fair? If someone is an incredible philanthropist, is his "fair share" more or less of that of someone who chooses to keep the fruit of his labor and/or do his giving in secret?

How does anyone have any claim on the hard work of another? How dare they insist that "everyone give their fair share"?

Gah. It's frelling maddening.
 

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You want equality? Here ya go.....

Flat tax - no deductions. That ends all whining.
 

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You want equality? Here ya go.....

Flat tax - no deductions. That ends all whining.
The problem there is the deductions come out before the income is counted. For the self employed anyway.
 

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Consumption tax. Earn all you can. Pay tax on all you spend.
Gee that will stop all the stupid stuff. I deal with some wealthy people and from my understanding 3rd grade...they pay gains tax (when they sell property inc?). many find all kinds of ways to hide money by not spending their own money. I know as poor as im i have been used with my time and money to their benefit.
 

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The problem there is the deductions come out before the income is counted. For the self employed anyway.
Sorry you didn't catch that - I wrote No Deductions.
 

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Robert Kiyosaki is the fellow I recall saying that it isn't how much money you make but how much you keep that matters. I mentioned that to a young enthusiastic progressive \while discussing economics.
"You are a Christian," she said, "You shouldn't be concerned about how much you make but how much you give, right? That is what you are doing with your taxes, you are giving to help your fellow American."
"I don't give anything to taxes" I told her. "They are taken."

Under the current structure, it isn't just the rich who are holding out.
It isn't a wild assumption to speculate that maybe a majority of the middle class and working poor are fudging on taxes; pushing numbers in order to maximize a deduction or a tax payment. How many folks making 33k working at the hardware store are getting hit with audits? How many hourly employees doing time at a club fed for tax evasion? The household that adds a little this or that on their 1040 so they get a $2000 return instead of a $600 return or the fraudsters pulling in checks based on a nursing home or cemetery full of social security numbers.
20 out of 25 kids cheat on their 9th grade math test, yet 3 kids go to the principals office because everyone says they are smarter than the rest.
 

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STILL not Alice
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How about this:

Taxation is theft.

IMO, everything should be privatized. Anyone who cannot see how government has become nothing more than a self-perpetuating beast has their eyes shut tight.

The first person who says "What about the roads?" is subject to a corollary of Godwin's Law.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
How about this:

Taxation is theft.

IMO, everything should be privatized. Anyone who cannot see how government has become nothing more than a self-perpetuating beast has their eyes shut tight.

The first person who says "What about the roads?" is subject to a corollary of Godwin's Law.
China would out bid us on our own military.
 
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