How much better is a 4WD tractor?

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by oz in SC, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    There are two tractors for sale in the trader:

    1999 SHIBAURA 1740, WAS $7600 NOW $6590, 4X4, NEW 4FT FRONT END LOADED (COST $3000), 21HP, 3 CYL, NEW TIRES, 3PT HITCH, PTO, REFURBISHED, DIESEL,$6,590.

    1990 SHIBAURA SD2600, NEW 4' FRONT END LOADER (COST $3000), 31HP, 3CYL, 2WD, NEW TIRES, 3PT HITCH, PTO, DIESEL, REFURBISHED,$6,395

    Both are for sale by the same person and the main difference is one is 4WD and less HP.

    How much difference will those 10HP make?

    Price is obviously not much difference between th two so it comes down to 4WD and less HP or 2WD and more HP.
     
  2. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    You'll have to maintain that 4x4 and its not cheap when something breaks. If you have a lot of wet land you'll power though and get the job done if you don't its wasted on you. I sold my last 4x4 this spring and have no plans to replace it.
     

  3. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Well that is kind of my way of thinking-I went to look at a new Farm Trac(Indian made ford copy) and the salesman was telling me how a $WD is what I would need in NC to do work in bad weather.....I just told him I didn't plan on going outside in bad weather!!! :D I would just wait for sunshine.

    So what is this tractor-a gray market tractor?

    I really kind of worry about getting stuck with a dud but I really can't go for a more mainstream tractor without getting a much older model....

    Well it isn't like it is urgent-the land hasn't been cleared yet....too rainy for the dozer.

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. mikell

    mikell Well-Known Member

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    I have a 85 ford 1210 20 hp 4x4 with turf tires and love it. It will move 800lb round bales on the 3 point and haul a wagon load of hay no problem. The turf tires don't tear up things and the 4x4 gets you through it also has a FEL that I couldn't live without.


    mikell
     
  5. Gary in ohio

    Gary in ohio Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is going to be a big differance between 20 and 30hp. Usually you will find that 30hp gets you a larger tractor. 4wd is ok, but something else to break and usually hard to fix. On the grey markets 4x4 are hard to find parts for on some models.
     
  6. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    So these Shibaura tractors are Japanese gray market tractors?

    Would I be better off to find an older tractor for less money rather than buying a more modern less common tractor?

    What about the less known popular tractors-Oliver,Deutz,etc?

    I imagine I would be in a similar(or possibly worse) situation with an older model?

    Thanks all.
     
  7. Jena

    Jena Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on what you need the tractor for. We have one with front wheel assist and it gets a work out in the winter. The 2WD's just can't make it through the mud.

    If I were buying another tractor, I'd do all I could to get 4WD or front wheel assist.

    Jena
     
  8. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Well our future homestead is 17 acres and is slightly sloping down to the creek.

    I couldn't see the need for 4WD but what do I know??? :)

    It snows there a few times a year but DOES rain a LOT.

    Hmmm.
     
  9. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    I tell a lie, my skidsteer is 4wd, its a whole other ball game though. Less known? To whom? Olivers at one point were just rebranded Cockshutt, Mini Mo-s and Whites. Parts should still be reasonably easy to get. Some were pretty odd though and most will have high hours. Deutz is back in N America with their new fancy tranny/big ticket beasts. Pretty tractors I liked them at the show very much. They were poorly supportly in the 80's but there are lots of old Deutz tractors still running. I've heard good and bad about them. It sounds like you're not sure what will work best for you so I'd buy a well knoiwn and easy to sell tractor and see if it will do what you want.
     
  10. Blu3duk

    Blu3duk Well-Known Member

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    With the increasing use of the internet, parts are somewhat more accessible..... however you gotta be patient in looking, and maybe even lean towards being a techno junkie to use the net to the maximum in finding things.

    That said, I vote for a 4x4 over the 2x4 for the simple reason i used to run a 60 horse 2x4 JD, my uncle had various makes and models of tractors over the years, but when he bought the 4x4 kubota 60 horse i started looking harder at what it could do...... it pulled 3 18's in ground i could barely pull 3 16's, it did it on top the soil where i dug the wheels in deeper, using more fuel doing a similar job, parts cost were comparable, JD being in love with the name, and Kubota being the asian counter part to a degree..... high cost parts.

    At the time, he had only a few problems with the 4x4, and i remember when dad broke the front axle on the JD, it took 3 weeks to get a replacement of a so called common part, and then it snapped again so we ended up putting a backhoe front end under the beast.... no problem with that other than larger turning radius, but i never had any problems with jackknifed implements either.....

    so in all i suspect horror stories on any front here and there, you still have to figure in if the hillside is going to be where you are doing anything when it is slick, tractors will go up a fairly steep grade until they spin out....

    advantage of front end power also is if you aregonna carry a heavy load on the front and expect to turn.... it could help out, and then again over use of heavy loads may wear it out faster......

    the 4x4 lower horse power will make up almost the difference of the 2x4 in heavy pulling, the 21 horse should pull 2 16's as easily as the 30, but the 30 may pull 3 14's where the 21 might not at all in your soil.....

    I would assess the availibility of salvage tractors in the surrounding area, where i am now there are old case and international tractors sitting around [that havent been sold as scrap] more so than where i grew up which had predominence of JD and Ford, just the difference in 200 miles and dealerships.

    And these gray market machines are tempting, but i am still not sold completely on any of them.... even the ones that are nearly the same as the old american models..... I just dont see the part interchange assome perport....

    William
     
  11. Gary in ohio

    Gary in ohio Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The stronger 4x4 fron axle will help with a loader.
    You might want to check http/www.tractorbynet.com/forums They have a greymarket fourm.

    FYI, tracktorbynet is a great site for most all tractors
     
  12. gobug

    gobug Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I bought an old shibauru in March. They currently make Ford tractors! They have been making Ford engines and transmissions for some time. Some tractor dealers import the used tractors for parts.

    Mine is smaller, diesel 14hp, but has the 4wd and a front end loader. I have used it in 2wd and the difference is worth the price. Mine is about 20 years old and I have only used it about 100 hours. I love it, but I wish I could have afforded a larger tractor.

    How many hours are on the meters?
     
  13. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Older USA tractors made with cast iron & big tires are just fine with 2wd. (Like the Ford N series, Oliver 550, Allis WD, etc.)

    Big farm tractors with 100-175 hp made with lots of cast iron are just fine with 2wd.

    Over 225 hp, and a tractor needs more than just dual wheels to pull. It will spin out. You need 4wd on a big tractor like that.

    Any of the small import compact tractors are built light. That doesn't mean they are bad, but: It means you will get _nowhere_ without 4wd. Very much most especially with a loader on it! A small compact tractor like this with a loader without 4wd will be useless.

    Given the choice of these 2 tractors only, I would take the smaller but far more useful 4wd one every time. If you just wanted it for pulling and neither had a loader on, then the choice would be more difficult.

    I know you are not looking at 225hp tractors, but I'm trying to show that the answer varies a lot depending on what class of tractor you are looking at. There is no blanket statement that 4wd is always better than 2wd. It depends on the frame of the tracotr, it's hp, and how you are going to use it.

    These 2 machines are made by the same company that has supplied parts to Ford & now New Holland for a few decades. The price seems a little high for an off-brand. Starters, alternators, and such parts are terribly high-priced on these models, as no one else makes compatable ones, so you are stuck with one source & one source only. Do they have live pto, power steering, extra remote hydraulics? I'd want that for this price.

    But, they sound like a real good size & fit for your operation. I would perhaps keep looking for a more mainstream brand name or a better price, but this is the size tractor I would think would fit you well for just general yard & seeding work.

    --->Paul
     
  14. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply.

    So would(as has been suggested by others) a 3000 or 4000 Ford tractor be a good choice??

    For some reason i keep going back to Ford tractors although I don't have any preference to ANY brand name.
     
  15. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm quite familiar with the 100 series of Fords (red & grey, newer than the N series, older than the 1000 series you are mentioning.)

    Ford came out with a, hum, was it 2000 & 4000 Ford tractor first? They were almost identical to the previous 601 & 801 series tractors, just painted blue. A year or 2 later, they came out with a whole new design, different sheet metal, & 3 cylinder engines instead of 4. However, they did not change the model number! So, be careful when discussing a 4000 Ford, I believe you could have 2 very different tractors, depending on it's year of production. (I may be slightly off on my info, but this is the gist of it.)

    The 3 cylinder Fords were real good. Those with SoS trannies are a little scary, while a good design, they have 3 times as many parts & cost 3 times as much to repair, and at this age, most are about due for a tranny rebuild whan they are being sold.

    Otherwise, real good machines, very popular. Parts are easy to find (other than that SoS tranny). They came with different options, I'd look for live pto, power streering (esp with a loader), if it's a diesel you prefer the 3 cylinder, I'd prefer a standard clutch & shift tranny.

    I own a 960 which is an old version of a 4000 I believe, and it has been a workhorse utility tractor on this farm for 35 years, dad bought it used....


    Or, a shorter answer to your question: Yes. :)

    --->Paul
     
  16. tractors are like cars you will have a much more useful one if you go with something common as dirt. that can vary with what part of the world you live in. I would go with an old one that i could get parts for rather than a newer one i had to mail order everything in for. No name imports are a great way to waste time money and frustrate your day. Remeber they always break when you need them most and yesterday. to anwer the power and drive question i guess you would have to try using them both for the purposes you have in mind to decide. Unfortunately unless you are a large farmer it may be hard to get on farm in use demo time. Also look closely at local dealer support has the brand been in your area by a solid dealer at least several years? Is the dealer that picked it up a solid one? do they have a history of trying every new brand 2 years then dropping it? Maybe if you can get something cheap enough you can use it 5 years then sell it to the melter, when it starts to break more.
     
  17. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    4wd is very nice but not completely necessary. If you have a loader on a 2wd tractor just the weight of the loader itself takes so much weight off of the rear wheels that traction becomes a problem. You need rear wheel weights, loaded tires and sometimes a counter weight on the back like a cutoff barrel full of concrete. Definetly a BIG problem if you go down a slight slope and have to back up. Older tractors are great and most are 2 wd. I am partial to Ford tractors and have an 8N and a 2600. My 2600 is a 1977 diesel with a frt. end loader and power steering. Power steering is a must for a tractor with a loader. The 2600 is just a later version of a 2000. Loaders put a lot of pressure on a frt end and 4wd frt. ends are stronger. Massey Fergusons are known for weak frt. steering on the 35 and 135 models and adding a loader will wear it faster.
    The price of the tractor is just the start. Wait till you try and actually do something and start buying equipment for it.
     
  18. joan from zone six

    joan from zone six Well-Known Member

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    my great, great, great granny always used to say "never buy a brand of tractor you can't pronounce"