Horse Slaughter New twist

Discussion in 'Equine' started by haypoint, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. JoshuaM

    JoshuaM Member

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    "In many instances tribal authorities remove and sell these horses into the slaughter pipeline. Sometimes these removals create a huge public interest; many times happen without any knowledge outside the borders of the reservation. Legally these are NOT considered wild horses but the private property of tribal members; most often seen as domestic livestock by the tribe, just like their cows.

    At this moment (5/2014) the Yakima (Yakama) tribes in Washington state are removing and selling horses through a known killbuyer they have worked with before."

    As a note the Yakima have been pushing for a horse slaughter facility on tribal land."

    https://wildhorseeducation.org/reality-of-wild-horse-slaughter/

    There.
     
  2. oneraddad

    oneraddad Non-Known Member

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  3. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    My point here, the "new twist" is that there is a big demand for healthy, Percheron yearlings and two year olds and prices are four or five times what was being paid for them a few years ago. The Percheron breed is not a large association and to have 500 or a thousand young, healthy, sound, often registered yearlings and two year olds diverted to the meat market is entirely different than the off spring of a sickle hocked mare bred to a sway backed pony that you refer to.
    Maybe I draw the line in the sand in a different place than you. Some think every horse should be eaten.Some think no horses should be eaten, ever. Some think that unsound, crippled, injured, crazy and old horses should be eaten. I'm in that group. But taking a relatively large segment of young horses of the Percheron breed to the feed lot and then exported to Japan is troubling.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018 at 10:57 PM
  4. Irish Pixie

    Irish Pixie Well-Known Member

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    What's the difference between eating a registered Percheron and a registered Charolais? If the market is calling for Percheron, that's what is going to sell.
     
  5. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    I agree, it is difficult to articulate the difference. The folks raising beef cattle are in the business of providing meat. These cattle have been a source of food for thousands of years. Nearly all, perhaps all of those raising Percherons, are seeking to improve the breed as either work horses or hitch horses. Most also accept that horses unsuited to these uses, due to defects, injury or age, will go to slaughter or buried on farm. Many breeders of Percherons track the successes of their sold horses and the successes of the succeeding generations.
    An active slaughter market provides a "floor" for the horse market. This provides a place for old, lame, crazy horses. This floor helps maintain better prices for the horses above this floor.
    But this "new twist" isn't focused on culling the old, lame or crazy horses. This market is directed at the young and healthy. The demand is not fettered by price. The demand is shown to be able to out bid those seeking teams for working or showing, often by thousands of dollars.
    By paying far more for young horses than trained teams, those in the occupation of training teams are put out of business. Then those in the business of using trained horses will eventually run out of trained horses.
    Right now, these colts were not intended for meat. Breeders are anticipating their colts will go in to many years of farm or show work and be well cared for.
    With an increase in value of colts, spurs breeding, including low quality horses. Any overproduction of low quality production will continue in the breed, perhaps setting back gains made over the past hundred years.
     
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  6. oneraddad

    oneraddad Non-Known Member

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    My rancher buddies get elk tags because there's too many elk on their property, but they're helpless with the wild horses. Horses are not native to Nevada and are an invasive species like a weed and need to be eradicated as such. Leave the water and habitat for our native wildlife !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2018 at 2:01 PM
  7. oneraddad

    oneraddad Non-Known Member

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    My grandpa showed up in Winnemucca from Spain around 1900 to herd sheep, I know a bit about Northern Nevada myself having lived here for 60 years.
     
  8. Grey Mare

    Grey Mare Well-Known Member

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    So your Basque? To each his own....
     
  9. Irish Pixie

    Irish Pixie Well-Known Member

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    There will be breeders of draft horses that breed to this new market, just as beef cattle breeders do. Do your part to save your breed of choice, start a breeding operation to keep the lines and conformation standards up to snuff.
     
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  10. Grey Mare

    Grey Mare Well-Known Member

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    Irish Pixie....the Percheron draft horse was almost eradicated during WWI when many of them were shipped over from the US to France, we almost lost the breed entirely. Also the invention of tractors to do the farm work in half the time a team of drafts can do it, iff it wasn't for those who loved the breed for it's great attributes and strength, we would of lost the breed.

    Today, those who still use the Percheron and try to improve the breed, such as Haypoint and others, even if we do breeding and bring the original body and bone, hoof and strength back to what they should be, there is always other breeders who are breeding solely to make money. We can try hard but you know how that goes when other's aren't' so concerned for the animal itself and how they are bred. It isn't so simple to "do our part", so many things are already against a good, honest, knowledgeable breeder....
     
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  11. Irish Pixie

    Irish Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and they were brought back by dedicated breeders correct?

    Horses are livestock not pets and any type, breed, etc. can be raised and sold for meat.
     
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  12. Grey Mare

    Grey Mare Well-Known Member

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    Not to some of us. Have you ever had a horse? Raised it or known it it's entire lifetime then lost it or had to make the heartbreaking decision to put it to sleep? I have. When I put my Trixie Doodle to sleep, in the wee hours of the morning after battling over a year with colic, every known test to figure out what was wrong, then to realize it was cancer, a part of me went with her when we buried her on our farm. That is a feeling you can't describe when you have a bond with a really good team of mares, and you won't understand unless you own an work them yourself and develop that deep bond.

    Have you ever been associated and worked with a breed association of any type? Again, I have. I was a member of the Percheron Horse Association for many years, supported them, sponsored classes in local shows, B rated shows at our county fairs and at the top A rated shows at the Percheron Congress. Unless you are a well known, have money to burn, show ONLY in the A rated shows with a 6+ hitch class of Percheron's that you have sponsorship with some well known names, what you say, how you campaign it, or present it, isn't going to mean a plug nickle.

    Those who keep the Percheron alive, who worry about their build, bone, blood lines, how they are raised, used, and training, are us backyard farmers, breeders, and our voice isn't often heard in the association. How do I know this? Because at Congress one year I mentioned something about scotch bottom shoes being used, what they hide, and a very well known member snorted at me from across the table and to my face told me, it is the top name breeders who keep the breed alive, that the public wants to see the "fire breathing Hackney on steroid" looking Percheron, not our plugs in the field.
     
  13. Irish Pixie

    Irish Pixie Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of your emotional response, horses are livestock the same as a cow, pig, sheep, or goat.

    If you want to save the wild horses, certain breeds, etc. by all means do it, but you can't wave a magic wand and make them pets like dogs and cats because they are not.

    There isn't much point in discussing this further, if you are truly worried about the Percheron breed start a breeding program yourself.
     
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  14. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    It is the new twisted economics that is the problem.
    Breeders can breed quality horses. But when mature trained horses are selling at $4000 each and yearlings and 2 year olds are being purchased for $2800 as meat animals, no one can buy and train and stay in business. The supply of broke teams keeps the price at $4000 each. A shorter supply of broke teams will not push their value up, because there is a limit on what work can be done, weighed by the cost of feed and upkeep.
    So, for the Percheron breed, the loss of a few thousand healthy young horses per year will have the same effect as when tractor dealers were buying sound broke teams and sending them to slaughter as a way to drive up the demand for tractors.
    If I had a yearling mare, out of a top quality mare and sired by a National Champion stallion, it is quite likely that the buyers that want to train, care for and perhaps breed that colt will be outbid by the meat buyer. Few can hold onto several years worth of colts, shielding them from the meat buyer, wait for them to be 3 years old (unwanted by the meat buyer) and sell them for $3000 each so a trainer can buy them.
    I would suggest that you keep your opinion to yourself in any riding stable in the nation, most horse owners would be offended by anyone placing horses in the livestock category.

    Right now there is a huge push to rescue old, lame horses from the kill pens. Killer horse buyers are capitalizing on this by buying the old and lame, plus any cheaper horse they can buy. Rescue groups are paying a premium to "save" these horses. Killer horse buyers are getting rich supplying old, lame and somewhat poor quality horses to those that feel they are saving a horse's life. This is a segment of the horse industry that exists among the cheapest horses. Some should go to good homes, some should go to slaughter and some should be buried on site.
    But, to me, the sale of quality young horses to slaughter is different. I don't hear any "horse rescues" clamoring to save these healthy young colts.
    I guess it is like animal shelters. 50,000 pets euthanized for lack of a home, many young, trained and healthy. But if you poke out an eye, chop off a leg, people are clamoring to "rescue" the dog.
     
  15. Irish Pixie

    Irish Pixie Well-Known Member

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    You've reworked the same information in at least two posts now, bottom line- what are you going to do about it? It's not illegal to raise and sell livestock to slaughter. Are you going to keep your breed of choice up to current standards by implementing a breeding program?
     
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  16. Grey Mare

    Grey Mare Well-Known Member

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    Please answer my questions then on my lengthy post then please.....your for it...I am against it...ever felt passionately about something? I do, about horses.
     
  17. HeavyHauler

    HeavyHauler Well-Known Member

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    So wait, you'll shoot a deer and eat it; but not a horse?

    Seems a little silly.

    Meat is meat.

    Horses are a livestock animal. They can also be pets. Also be "athletes", work animals, etc.

    You don't want to eat them? Fine, don't.

    If other people do, why are you trying to stop them? Who the hell are you to make decisions for others, or have your way implemented in their lives?

    You say money is a limiting factor in your future "breeding program", so make more money. Work harder. Pare down your spending and save more.

    If it's so important to you, you would do what it takes to get there. Wouldn't you?

    Also, breeders brought back whatever breed of horse you deem incredibly important; so they can keep breeding to provide horses to people that want them for other uses than eating. How is that gonna go away?

    You remind me of those people who create social media accounts for their pets and pretend to be them, talk for them, etc. Bunch of weirdos.

    But hey, to each their own. Just don't impose your crap on me or anyone else who doesn't want it.

    There's a guy in town who sells "exotic" meats. I think I'll purchase some horse meat to see what the big deal is.

    Anyone know what kind of seasonings would go well on a horse steak?
     
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  18. oneraddad

    oneraddad Non-Known Member

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    The horse I ate was in a pepperoni stick and was kinda dry, I'd add some pork fat to it if I ever made them myself.
     
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  19. HeavyHauler

    HeavyHauler Well-Known Member

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    That would be a good idea.
     
  20. gerold

    gerold Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Horses originated in North American. China and Japan people will eat anything.

    DT and a lady in government who put the idea to DT that there is nothing wrong with butchering horse meat and selling it in American.
    It will save government money to slaughter horses in the U.S. instead of paying government money to feed them. This is Trumps deals to cut the high cost of government.
    No true Christian would eat a horse. Book of Leviticus rules out the eating of horse meat.
    Graham(R-S.C.) a true Christian and others have presented a bill to not slaughter U.S. horses. Others have also put up bill against this Trump bill to kill horses for meat.
    The U.S. congress has been down this road many times before.
     
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