Horse feed vs. goat feed

Discussion in 'Goats' started by steff bugielski, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. steff bugielski

    steff bugielski Well-Known Member

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    Is there any problem doing this. Is there any thing that might be in horse feed that goats can't have. After the discussion on here with Vicki I checked out the blue seal charger. The first three ing. are oats , barley and corn. AS opposed to the grain by-product and rouphage products the one I have been using has. It is 14% protien. The price is only $1 more per bag. seems like a no brainer. I will be giving alfalfa pellets as well. They get grass hay all day and a mineral block.
    Also there is selenium in the block is that enough in an area where selenium is low.
    Steff
     
  2. neehifarm

    neehifarm Well-Known Member

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    There is two or three MAJOR differences that you may want to consider.
    The first is the amount of CORN. Corn is not good for goats, no matter what anyone tells you. It is high in empty carbs, leading to unnecessary weight gain and also a contributor of Urinary Calculi in male goats, which in most cases is fatal. Corn is VERY cheap for manufacturers to put in feed, so it is in many many horse feeds.
    Another is the amount of molasses in horse feed, is too high for a goat. I just recently learned (thanks to my nieghbors goat across the street=and their newly blind goat), that too much molasses forces a goat body to become deficifient in B vitamins. The symptoms minic Goat Polio and lead to blindness and staggering.
    I didn't see if you were feeding male goats or not, but MALE goats do NOT benefit whatsoever from higher protein.
    HOWEVER, after going through many different types of feed for both my horses and 17 goats.....there is one bag in my area that is suitable for my horses AND nutritionally balanced for my goats. It's NUTRENA triumph horse feed. You have to ask for the bag that has no corn WITH beet pulp. I believe it's 12% protein and NOT saturated with molasses.
    I have yet to find a goat feed I am happy with.
     

  3. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I buy unsweetened 16% "Animal Feed" by Nutrena $7.30 for 50#
    mixed with
    1 bag of sweetened 14% "Animal Feed" by Nutrena $7.30 for 50#

    And my minerals are "Sho-Glo" (for horses) added to feed ($9 for a 5# bag?)

    And sometimes I'll use Ascend gel (skin and coat) into warm water buckets in the winter and at kidding time. Another horse product.

    I dont have any horses but I do use horse products alot on my goats....I also use the 1.87% Ivermectin paste wormer.

    We also had a 50# bag of rolled oats given to us that the goats loved....and from time to time I feed Sunflower seeds.

    I've tried Challenger (18%) and my goats didnt like it. One year I used a product called "Baby beef" grain out of Canada that was not very sweet and the goats liked that....I was staying near the border and the grain was cheaper/ closer thats the only reason I used it but they did well on it.

    I feed whole corn stalks every Fall and the goats love them...as well as the cobs after we've eaten what we want. Brocolli stalks are something else that the goats look forward to.....
     
  4. gryndlgoat

    gryndlgoat Well-Known Member

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    sorry- double post!
     
  5. gryndlgoat

    gryndlgoat Well-Known Member

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    I don't use any commercial mixed feeds. Instead, I buy hen scratch grains from the feed mill- a mix of equal parts cracked corn, wheat and oats. I add another equal measure of black oil sunflower seeds. This way I know exactly what is in the feed every time I buy it. No molasses ever. No questionable protein additives. This is fed only to goats that are in milk, on the milk stand, about 3-4 cups. Dry does, our buck, and the youngsters get a small amount(a handful or so) as a treat only, and mostly in the winter to provide a few extra calories.

    For added protein, I rely on alfalfa (broken cubes- can't find pellets here) fed morning and evening in winter and evenings only in summer when pasture is available all day. Grass hay is provided in the barn every day in winter and if it rains in summer (goaties won't go out to eat in the rain). Pregnant goats get all the alfalfa they want.

    Winter food is also supplemented with Christmas trees that we cut down on our property. They also get pumpkins, apples, bread, crackers and their favorite- left over spaghetti! (in tiny amounts) as treats when we visit the barn. Free choice minerals and baking soda always.

    This regimen has worked great for almost three years now.
     
  6. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Steffi, see what dry mixes they have, sometimes called all-grain also. Horse feeds are simply superior to goat feeds, mostly quality, but also in the tag itself stating what is in it, and the mineral mix with biotin, yeasts, probiotics and kelp....you will never see much of anything but basic minerals in goat pellets.

    I wish corn was cheap! Tested corn is only $1 per 50 less than clean fat oats here! Corn is also the cheapest form of energy you can buy, the only thing wrong with corn is using it in two high of percentage in the feed. Most horse grains are oats, with equal less parts corn and barley here. But with horse grain you get the whole oat, not the outside coatings and siftings you will get in goat pellets.


    You don't need even 14% grain if you are using alfalfa, (pellets or hay). Vicki
     
  7. dbarjacres

    dbarjacres Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Corn's not cheap anymore! Calf prices just bottomed out here in WI w/in the last month due to not enough corn being grown and the ethanol plants consuming so much! Corn went from $1.75/bushel in spring to $3.60/bushel last week!

    I feed horse grain as I don't like any goat grain around here either and have had no problems and it has so much extras added like biotin and yeast as mentioned.
     
  8. Oldntimes

    Oldntimes Well-Known Member

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    Vicki,
    You seem so knowledgeable :) . I was wondering if you would tell me what you are feeding. I know you probably have answered these questions befor, :goodjob:
    I was wondering what grain you use?
    If you mix it yourself, what do you mix and how much of each?
    If store bought what % and is it goat pellets or Horse Pellets?
    How much are you feeding your Does?
    How Much are you feeding your Bucks.
    Thanks,
    Colleen
     
  9. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    Do you feel this is because horses are valued higher than goats?? I buy horse feed (nutrena, for my horses) and goat feed from the same supplier, but the horse feed is very consistent in quality, where the goat feed is iffy and I've basically stopped buying it. I've gone to the all breed dry cob - again marketed for horses - and it's always clean - and it does contain the biotin and other things the goat feed doesn't.

    Corn is $6 a bag here.
     
  10. steff bugielski

    steff bugielski Well-Known Member

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    Are the yeast and biotin no good for goats or just something unnesscery.
    I am now feeding the milkers tha caprine challenger and the young, dry and buck the basic all stock from Tractor. It is 12% but does not seem to have much of anything worth it in it.
    I would then switch everyone over to the horse feed but suppliment the milkers more. I am expecting kids to start dropping around Dec. 19th so I thought this would be the time to make the slow switch.
    If it were warmer here the dry does and buck would not get any grain. But it's cold here.
    Is it too late to give selenium to those soon to deliver?

    Steff
     
  11. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    First I feed alfalfa pellets, each grown adult gets 3 pound of alfalfa pellets in a bunker feeder in the stall. So there is pellets in the feeder most of the time. I can't do true free choice because the older girls would be tanks worse than they are, and we have such high humidity the bottom pellets would mold. They get all their rouhage/calcium/protein 17% from these alfafla pellets. Kids pens have feeders filled daily, they are on free choice, feeders are cleaned out each weekend and given to the adults.

    Then grain, milkers are on Pilgrims 12% allgrain (I have also used the Bluebonnet dry Mix from Tractor Supply) both of these feed tags are menued meaning that each and every time it is milled they are exactly the same, and yes Doc, the quality is better in horses because they are horses. Consistancy is key. A byproducts feed tag means each and everytime the grain is mixed it is only to gurantee the percentages of fat, protein and roughage, this can be done with many by products that I don't want my goats having, and it's inconsistant.

    The milkers get 1 or 2 pounds of grain at each milking, milking them each day I do notice easily who is gaining too much weight, who is not keeping enough weight on, and the amount of grain goes up and down for each doe. My biggest does get about 3/4 pound of grain in the am and pm and even less than this later in lacation. First Fresheners milking their first year as 13 month olds get as much grain as they want, they are still growing and milking. But my girls milk, we do have the embarassing 4 pound FF milking once in awhile, but that is not the norm here, if your girls milk less or are a smaller breed they need less grain. And if you aren't showing, your girls need less flesh. Grain is not your goats friend, use it sparrinly to achieve the goal at your farm. The girls also get BOSS (1/4 cup) over their grain on the milkstand.

    The babies start on a Pilgrims meat goat pellets, because it is only a 16% I do add a supplement pellet (High soy knock off of Calf Manna) to it and BOSS. It has alfalfa meal in it and then the rest is by products. I use this for the ammonium chloride in it for the bucklings and the deccox in it for cocci in the kids, once again free choice because they have to be eating 1 pound per 30 pounds of body weight to keep the levels of these two things constant. I also use this as my buck grain this time of year when the bucks are in rut, and are going to be appraised this April...they get 3 pounds of alfalfa pellets daily, and 3 pounds of the meat goat pellet each daily. The bucks are a March born kid who has already bred 25 does, and big 3 and 4 year olds.

    Everyone is also in large wooded pasture/pens they have clean automatic waterers (huge thing we never talk about is the size of water buckets, and cleanliness of them) loose minerals (Bluebonnet Tech Master Complete) it's a grey mineral which is not red from red iron oxide, we have enough of this on the property and in the water, so no red minerals are fed here.

    Yes Biotin is a wonderful hoof builder, and yeasts (Diamond V) has studies out to show that animals recieving them along with rummen buffers milk more over a longer period of time.

    My girls will all be dry in 3 weeks, they are not due until end of Feb to mid March. Once dry and not coming to the milkroom anymore they get no grain, just alfalfa pellets and minerals and grass hay.......once 100 days pregnant they go back on grain about 1/2 cup a day, adding to that amount weekly, so it's a very slow increase per week) until they are about 1 pound of grain a day the day they kid.

    The only supplements I feed is BOSS, a really good addition of fat and roughage, it's wonderful for your kids, it staves off enterotoxemia. I feed it to the milkers heavier the last 50 days of pregnancy so they come into milk, and can be slick shorn in april for thier first shows, with their skin in excellent condition...without Boss/fat our girls shave out the first show less than beautiful with dandruff.

    If you are after a secret bullet it's the alfalfa pellets. Obviously alfalfa hay that is in good conditon (it's not here, leaf shatter or mold in our humidity) is what grows out those big robust kids who can have kids their first year, who milk well (if the breeding is there at all) and stay in excellent hard body condition.

    Steffi, I dont' even give my Bo-se shots to my milkers until a full week before they are kidding. We all know that the selenium only lasts in the system a few weeks, so if you are giving it 3 or 4 weeks out, is it really bolstering the colostrum for the kids? I don't think so. So although yes I vaccinate, trim feet and check fecal on does 3 weeks out, Bo-se is left until right before they kid. Vicki
     
  12. steff bugielski

    steff bugielski Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much Vicki. Your knowledge and willingness to freely give it is much appriciated by me and i am sure many others.
    Steff
     
  13. Oldntimes

    Oldntimes Well-Known Member

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    Thanks So Much Vicki, I just love reading you post. You explain everything so well and carefuly
    Colleen