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Many many years ago in Texas we helped build one room building s bed kitchenette shower sink toilet. Larger open area building for rec room group meeting group meals. Withing a short time the upkeep became too much. Not having someone on site 24 7 to monitor behavior and transportation medical mental health drug testing rehab the list kept growing. Seems free doesn't work. A lot of the reson people become homeless keeps them for becoming tenets.
With rules they cant and wont follow keeps them on the streets. Otherwise they could just live rough in a campground. States could offer section 8 for campgrounds state parks ect. But they wont because of the issues with behavior and lossing paying guests . shoot use some of the million storm sandy trailers the government owns.
you hit it right on
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I think there is room for many more tools in the toolbox ... what I suggested wasn't the only thing that can be done. It can and should be part of a bigger framework, which again, is above my pay grade. However, a place to land and a toilet/shower isn't much of a free handout, and I don't think it will empty out any other long-term solution; the intent was that it be "temporary". Item 3 (and 4) was to point the temporarily homeless towards other resources and more permanent solutions.

In a way, this also accommodates the the can't/won't crowd (they want to be homeless), by becoming the "official" place to do the things that are the main pain points elsewhere IN EACH CITY ... you get caught p**-ing, showering, sleeping elsewhere, then go to jail. But why do this illegal thing, when the absolute minimum service of these functions exist in each city? This way (and I'm no lawyer), the city has a leg to stand on, if a service was available but you still did these things in front of city hall.

It's up to each city (we want a local solution) to decide where the temporary facility goes, and it should be much easier to get this off the ground, at much less cost, than converting a military base, or a hospital, or any other such solution; those sound like "great city" only options to me.
 

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Posted 5/3/21 7:03 PM CDST

Many years ago a coworker seeing a line of shopping cart scrap collectors wagon training to a scrap yard joked that including the scrap they recycled that the city should give the shopping cart scrap collectors free shoes with miniature street cleaner rollers so as they shuffled along collecting scrap , they could also clean sidewalks and gutters as they made the city cleaner making their daily petty cash.

His joke got me thinking how the city's resident recycle effort was a failure at the time and I wondered what if the city built a combination recycling center / homeless shelter providing "3 hots , cot and showers" sort of jail house or boot camp commissary account style..

The first level would be the homeless cart pushers selling their scrap for their petty cash, but also earn basic needed clothing / hygiene items , a cot, and meals for their labor.

Next level would be like in the military boot camp couse, they advance and become part time cart collectors and part time recycle center work for allowance pay in their "luxury snack accounts.

Third and fourth level could be movement to better municipal labor , pay and transition back to society during their progression.

Of course, during all phases, the homeless population's health could be monitored by a shelter clinic

Maybe in the upper progression levels, GED / junior college classes could be offered to help the cream of the crop to move further into tax paying society.

It wouldn't work for all the homeless population but with municipal recycling centers, labor jobs and domestic volunteer projects, maybe 1/4 would return to gainful society as many former service personnel are homeless and maybe the clinics could identify homeless mentally ill better as municipalities eliminate some hobo jungles , improve waste recycling and augment their labor pools..
 

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^^^^
Good idea
 

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Those who advocate just "get a job" probably have no idea these days how difficult it is without an address, phone or transportation. (even with government 'free phones')

Those who advocate "go to a shelter" most likely don't realize that unless you're in front of the line, there's not enough beds - and when you do get in, you're likely to be robbed or worse.

There was a study done years ago in Phoenix where free housing (small apartment) was given to the homeless. The result was that within 6 months, most were back on the streets as, basically, they did not want to live under "someone else's rules".

Most of what is advocated, is similar to what is already being done to relieve the homeless situation. Doing the same thing over and over, just dressed in different wording is, yes, crazy.

I believe, some of what is needed, is to enforce rules already on the books - No loitering, etc. People don't allow kids to sleep anywhere, so why allow homeless, many with altered thought processes, to do the same?

Having worked in social services, (now retired). I believe the whole social services system needs revamping. A lot of "helping" is just perpetuating the problem. "Give a man a fish, you feed him for today, teach him to fish, you feed him forever." We're doing a lot of giving, not teaching. Not always literally. A hand up not a hand out....

Tough love is hard, on both sides. Few like it as it is hard. A line has to be drawn and kept.
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
WM just enhanced my solution ... brilliant! That's how ideas are supposed to flow back and forth!

The whole reason to have a resource area as I described, is that one can get showered and cleaned up, and make it through that next job interview, even while living in your car or pitching a tent, for reasons beyond your control.

Now, I need to add to the plan to get a free-use phone (do they still make public phones?), and some kind of anonymous postal service hub (mailbox pedestal?). Those who temporarily found themselves without a home can make use of these things to get back on their feet.

No rules, just make use if you want of a service (resource area) provided by each city.
 

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My solution is bring back the CCC the civilian conservation corps or something like it. it could be any number of projects. work for the day , and eat that night and get your breakfast and lunch for the next.

not to far off what Shrek was saying. just an expansion of possibilities.

the CCC was developed to teach young men how to work , give them skills and train them in how to hold a job.

it needs to pay for it's self at least over time to large extent. renovating housing , invasive vegetation removal , erosion projects
Posted 5/3/21 7:03 PM CDST

Many years ago a coworker seeing a line of shopping cart scrap collectors wagon training to a scrap yard joked that including the scrap they recycled that the city should give the shopping cart scrap collectors free shoes with miniature street cleaner rollers so as they shuffled along collecting scrap , they could also clean sidewalks and gutters as they made the city cleaner making their daily petty cash.

His joke got me thinking how the city's resident recycle effort was a failure at the time and I wondered what if the city built a combination recycling center / homeless shelter providing "3 hots , cot and showers" sort of jail house or boot camp commissary account style..

The first level would be the homeless cart pushers selling their scrap for their petty cash, but also earn basic needed clothing / hygiene items , a cot, and meals for their labor.

Next level would be like in the military boot camp couse, they advance and become part time cart collectors and part time recycle center work for allowance pay in their "luxury snack accounts.

Third and fourth level could be movement to better municipal labor , pay and transition back to society during their progression.

Of course, during all phases, the homeless population's health could be monitored by a shelter clinic

Maybe in the upper progression levels, GED / junior college classes could be offered to help the cream of the crop to move further into tax paying society.

It wouldn't work for all the homeless population but with municipal recycling centers, labor jobs and domestic volunteer projects, maybe 1/4 would return to gainful society as many former service personnel are homeless and maybe the clinics could identify homeless mentally ill better as municipalities eliminate some hobo jungles , improve waste recycling and augment their labor pools..

this is similar to my idea which is to revive the CCC civilian conservation corps Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia.

in the 2021 world it should extend to men and women

the pay would be roughly equaling to 600 dollars a month now , but it included food , shelter , health and clothing.

it made them more employable training labor skills
if persons 17 -28 had this program it would be helpful

at the same time a work a day eat for a day program for others.

what we know doesn't work is giving anything away


my daughter started her first job recently she is 16 , unfortunately she is realizing even people employed are often trying to do the minimum. She has only been there 2 weeks and can point out people who like to avoid the work. unfortunately in the current labor market just keeping the positions filled for each shift is an issue.

seems odd we talk about how nearly every business can't hire enough people right now yet there are many people still collecting unemployment

I feel far to many are holding out for a Cousin Eddie "I am waiting for a position in management"
 

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Why try? Why work? Why bother?? When the government gives you free phones, free food, free medical and a pay check every once in a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
GCP ... that idea is good enough to steal! I'll add a piece to my solution, something along the lines of:

Each city donates land (something they usually have or can acquire); needs bus route or other method of access to all other services. Using their folks and equipment, they build the "bones" of the site (roads, restroom/shower, etc.).

The Homeless Corp ("THC is free here" ... which should attract a few before they figure out what the acronym really means!) will then jump in to finish out the site, hopefully reducing the overall cost of site construction ... it's all manual labor, so no conflict with trades. Get local businesses to donate/fund/hire from participating homeless, and perhaps the labor pool just got bigger, while reducing problems elsewhere.

After the site is built out, continue the program, in CCC-style, wherever it is that the participating city needs other work done. It's free labor, and the homeless participants get all kinds of benefits from that (like job interviews with a guaranteed bump to the top of the list, because of work performed).

How's that for reducing startup costs ...
 

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.

You can't change the people around you; but you can change the people around you.

Please ask for an explanation if you don't get it.

I have BTDT as far as homelessness. Nearly five years worth as I built my life back from zero after being kicked to the curb by my wife of 26 years..

While I do believe there are the mentally ill and some genuine need out there, that need is crushed under the inexorable weight of bums. Those who have chosen homelessness as a lifestyle because they lack the maturity and discipline to join the rest of productive society and choose to live by being parasites, sucking the life and vigor out of all the well-meaning who reach out to them. Because most do-gooders are saps and suckers for a sob story or a cardboard sign on the median.

Ever watched The Grapes of Wrath? Those people depicted were up against it, yet they didn't whine and roll around like they were gut-shot demanding to be rescued from their circumstances. It may have been a movie, however that is a demonstration of how survivors react to hardship.

They get back up when they are knocked down hard, dust themselves off and solider on.

Most do-gooders are doing nothing more than enabling and exacerbating the problem, rather than facilitating any worthwhile change.

It's the same as giving an alky a bottle of Jack Daniel's and slapping yourself on the back because you eased his pain.

Hardcase? Bet your ass.

I have zero tolerance or sympathy for those who I have given an opportunity only to be spurned because it can't be turned into adult beverages or recreational substances.
Very well said.
 

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GCP ... that idea is good enough to steal! I'll add a piece to my solution, something along the lines of:

Each city donates land (something they usually have or can acquire); needs bus route or other method of access to all other services. Using their folks and equipment, they build the "bones" of the site (roads, restroom/shower, etc.).

The Homeless Corp ("THC is free here" ... which should attract a few before they figure out what the acronym really means!) will then jump in to finish out the site, hopefully reducing the overall cost of site construction ... it's all manual labor, so no conflict with trades. Get local businesses to donate/fund/hire from participating homeless, and perhaps the labor pool just got bigger, while reducing problems elsewhere.

After the site is built out, continue the program, in CCC-style, wherever it is that the participating city needs other work done. It's free labor, and the homeless participants get all kinds of benefits from that (like job interviews with a guaranteed bump to the top of the list, because of work performed).

How's that for reducing startup costs ...
This sounds very nice, but it is based on the idea that the homeless want to work, and or get back to a more normal life. The majority of them do not want to change, they have come to like their lifestyle, and have learned to live on the free bees and handouts. Without the very real incentive of staying out of jail, or going hungry, you will never get more than thirty or forty percent participation. My guess on the percentage of those who will participate is probably too high. Probably closer to ten percent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Agreed ... but I'm OK with some fraction of 100%, as the original solution accommodated both groups ... those wanting help and those not. In the end, you are getting out (of the situation) because services are available where they weren't before, or getting arrested (p**ing in front of city hall) ... I can live with that.

Again, I think the city has a better leg to stand on by offering the service(s), and then getting tough with the remainder ...

Far too often, I see the "getting tough" part, coupled with the "no help at all" part (I've traveled to way too many cities over my career). I think this idea of mine should be the very minimum of what is offered ... but, I'm a bit biased.
 

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... the issue is the homeless, and to this thread, tack on your (real) solutions, as comment free as possible. In this way, perhaps we can better compare and contrast between real solution ideas.
Around my part of the world the majority of homelessness is due to people giving up on self discipline and their life due to drug and booze addiction. A slippery slope.

By the standards I was raised with, an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.

So always stay clean. Respect money. Embrace hard work as a lifestyle.

Reject all foolishness of social pressure.

Look after yourself and your loved ones.

And always remember that not everyone out there is your friend, certainly not everyone out there has your best interests at heart.

So you have to be on guard for yourself at all times.

That’s my advice.
 
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