Help with dizzy/weak goat

Discussion in 'Goats' started by gccrook, May 8, 2005.

  1. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    Ihave a goat that walks like she is either dizzy, or maybe her legs just are notvery strong. She will try to run, then almost acts like her legs are going to buckle. She eats fine, and is otherwise OK (no scours, no temperature). I posted earlier on a goat with similar symptoms, but got no answer. This one is not as dizzy as the other one, and the other one seems to be better now. Any ideas? My vet is really helpful and all, but she really does not know goats.
     
  2. JR05

    JR05 Well-Known Member

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    Hi I am no expert but have you looked in the pasture and in your hay for anything different? Where do you get your hay? do you grow it yourself or just buy it from a local source? We had a problem several years ago , buying other peoples hay there was all kinds of trash in it. Burrs, sticks, ROCKs you name it, it was in there. We now cut our own, but since the does are not getting any sicker or running a fever then it could be something they are eating. Also the grain you feed them is it store bought or does someone mix it just for you? There could be something being dropped or put into it accidently that might cause your systems. Maybe someone that has knowledge in your area of the p[lant life there could help or you could go to fiaco.com they have a goat plant list.
    Good luck hope I got you thinking about some other areas to look and I am sure we all will want to know what you find.

    jr05
     

  3. rhjacobi

    rhjacobi Well-Known Member

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    Hi gccrook,

    Without a fever, it sounds most like either a deficiency or toxicity from too much or too little of something. If there isn't bloat, it probably isn't from too much feed.

    The most common deficiencies and toxicities are Copper, Thiamine and Selenium/Vitamin E. We live in a rare area that is not deficient in Selenium, so I haven't really had any experience with Selenium deficiencies. We have have seen some Selenium toxicities, which are suppose to be similar to deficiencies and this would be a possibility.

    It sounds more like a Thiamine deficiency (goat polio), but it seems like a lot to have two goats develop this. We have only had one case and it was brought on by some heavy and strong medication that we had to administer.

    I hope that this helps a little.

    Bob
    Lynchburg, TN.


     
  4. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    I want to thank you for your replies. You have given me much to think about. I checked around the pasture for possible toxic plants,and did not see any. Not saying I am the best at identifying plants, but there are not a lot of variteties in my pasture. I buy my hay, but I always break it open, and tear it apart to make sure it is not spoiled. It seems to be very good. We have not changed the grain we feed. We buy from the store, and mix some things together. They have free choice minerals, but maybe they are not getting them. I'm also thinking some sort of deficiency. I immediately gave them some Vit B Complex I keep on hand. That seems to help some, Will continue to watch them. They really seem to get better on their own. This second one appeared really skinny all of a sudden even though she was eating and poop was nornal.

    Again, thanks.
     
  5. furrflys

    furrflys Member

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    i recently had a goat kid with coccidia+3 (+3 is really bad) he displayed a "far way" look appered to not see well if at all, though pupils did respond to light slowly, also staggered had problems standing, seemed dizzy or dioriented, and generally just dazed. the vet said this was due to the coccidia and mixed up an injectable cocktail that included Thiamine (B1) a steroid and other things i cant remember off hand. this was given intramuscularly for 3 days and the symptoms improved after about 6 hours after first shot, probably the steroid. might get a fecal test done asap. i almost lost my goat treating him for the wrong problem.
     
  6. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    I agree about the fecal test.
    My initial reaction was polio too but then I thought of coccidia. Sometimes with coccidia they don't even get diareah, so you never know.

    Two things that I know of cause the spaceyness of goats: listeriosis and polio.

    Listeriosis: occurs about 3 weeks after a herd is started on corn silage. Sometimes it happens without the silage, just from wildlife and birds. But it is a major thing and death happens usually in 24 hours. Plus facial paralysis on one side and looks like bells palsy in goats.
    I don't believe this is your problem but thought I would put it out there as information.

    The polio gets better with B complex vitamins containing thiamine. I had a goat with polio. Didn't understand it, goat died and now I'd rather give them some B with thiamine just to be sure if I suspect it.
     
  7. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again. Do you always give Bvit as injectable, or is oral OK. My vet said to just give oral. She is really spacy today, just sort of wandering aimlessly. Not as dizzy acting, just sort of spacey. She usually is not real keen on coming up to me, but last night she just walked up and let me give her some probios and some oral B complex. We are still monitoring her. This morning, she will not let her kid nurse. Just walks away from him. Her appetite is not at its best, but she does still eat. Thanks again.

    What do you normally do for coccidia? I have some Di Methox I think 12% may be 40%. Is this what I use, and how much?
     
  8. rhjacobi

    rhjacobi Well-Known Member

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    Hi gccrook,

    As a treatment for Coccidiosis, I give 1 1/2 tables spoon of Di-Methox daily for five days as a drench. I usually get the 40% (it will say for injection or IV or something like that) and I will cut it with water to about 12.5% and give it as a drench.

    I usually don't see Coccidiosis in adults. They normally develop an immunity by then.

    I'm always in agreement with fecal sample testing.

    If it is a Thiamine deficiency, the vitamin B Fortified may not have enough Thiamine in it for a speedier recovery. We treated our one case with Thiamine injections. I'm not at home to check bottle labels or notes, so this should be verified before taking any action from this statement.

    I will say that it took quite a while for our doe to fully recover from the Thiamine deficiency - more than a week but less than a month (but not much less than a month).

    We have always given our B Fortified as an injection. I don't know if the oral dosage is any less effective or not. It has never been suggested by our vet and we generally use it only when there is a fairly pressing reason to. The B Fortified stuff is good help for a weakened goat and any excess over what the goat uses is passed out of the body.

    Bob
    Lynchburg, TN.

     
  9. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    ..........................................

    Are your does chewing their cud? B1/Thiamin is ONLY made in a healthy rumen in the goat. So if you are seeing any improvement using Bcomplex especially with Dex (steriod) in it, than you are dealing with something wrong with your rumens. Do they have acess to any spoled hay or straw even in the barn? Clean your feeders and make sure you don't have old grain at the bottom of them, or wet minerals. There is something going on that is destroying the B vitmains in your goats diet. How much molassas is in your grain?

    Listerosis of course comes to mind which is caused by mold, and there is the acute form and the chornic form, your does could eaisly have the chornic form and simply have not had an acute attack. Both listerosis and Polio are treated with high doses of B1...you can get Thiamin straight from the vet or use Fortified B complex's....simple B complex may be used but the dosages are huge! Go to saanendoah.com and read up on both of these.

    With listerosis you usually will see some facial nerve paralysis, if on the side where they chew their cud, the cud is in place and not being chewed.

    Somthing else that causes these sypmtoms and is not talked about alot on the lists, is tape worm infections...Coenurosis (OK something like that :) have you used a white wormer recently on your herd? Are tapes a problem in your area? This and Polio are pretty much the only two 'diseases' that give you this drunken problem with no fever...unless you have a severe defficiency....are these two goats your whole herd? Because a severe enough defficiency in a mineral would be herd wide, where polio or listerosis would be seen in just a few goats, usually the goats who are needing to eat the most, so they eat whatever is continuing the problem, with their rumens not functioning well (too much molassas, too much grain, not enough clean water, changes in diet they are not used to) they show the signs more overtly. vicki
     
  10. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    WOW! THanks guys. All of this is a learning experience for me. I have had goats for almost a year now, and I have 5 Does, a buck several weathers and some kids. The does and their kids are in their own pen. Only 2 of the 5 does have had this kind of thing. This one is on her second time. I try to check the hay as I give it to them, since I buy it. I have not yet seen any evidence of spoiled hay. Their minerals are free choice, inside the shed so they won't get wet.

    There is not very much molasses in my grain, only in the beeat pulp I buy. We water them fresh every day, some days several times. I think she is chewing the cud, but I guess I need to be more observant of that.

    I have wormed this one twice now in the last month. Once with Valbazen, and once with Ivomec. She has always been a little skinnier looking than the rest, but not unhealthy skinny.

    I will try to get thiamine from my vet, and give injections. I have been using fortified Vitamin B Complex orally. Maybe need to get the injections.

    Again, I truly appreciate your inputs. I really do not want to lose this doe. She is a first freshener, and is showing great promise as a milker.
     
  11. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    Just want to thank you guys again. I went home and gave her a Vit B Comlpex Fortified shot (that is what I had on hand). Drenched her with some nutridrench and some probios. This morning she was eating some alfalfa, and later my wife said she was chewing the cud. She is still not her normal self, but seems to be improving. DW got Thiamine from vet and some banamine to have on hand since she seemed to be in pain (hunched over in the rear this morning).
     
  12. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    If you don't see any improvement with the Thiamin given every 6 hours, and continued until 100%, with no fever, than start reading up on menengial worm, especially if you have white tail deer in your pastures or where your hay is cut. Vicki
     
  13. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Vicki. How long should I continue to give the Thiamine? She is eating alfalfa today, and seems better. Doesn't look so gaunt like she did before. To make things just a little worse, she, for some unknown reason, decided to try to chew on the electric netting fence I use. We do not know exactly how long she was caught on that, but couldn't have been too long as I was just working out there before that. We are concerned that we will not know if that caused any long term effects. I have never had any of my goats try to chew on the electric fence before. Am wondering if she was in pain and trying to find something to chomp on. Anyway, thank you. She does appear to be improving already. I was planning on giving her the Thiamine shots until she was 100%, but did not know if there is too much. I have been giving her some probios once a day also. I will read on menegial worm this evening.
     
  14. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Give the probiotics 2 or 3 times a day until the tube is gone. The Thiamin will also help her get her appetite back, and you can use it forever, certainly she will be back to her chipper self in 5 to 7 days. Every 6 hours in the beginning, with improvement every 12 hours for 5 to 7 days is pretty normal.

    If this is working, it does mean you have something in the goats diet, on your place, in your feeders, or in the hay that is depleting thiamin in their diet, or ruining the beneficial bacteria in their rumen so they are not making their own. You need to fix it or you will just continue to have chorinic episodes like this, until you have an acute attack to find someone dead. This is especially important to nip in the bud before breeding/kidding season. Vicki
     
  15. gccrook

    gccrook Well-Known Member

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    THanks. I will try to figure this out. It seems odd that this one doe has done this twice, and only one other doe has had similar symptoms, although we caught her early and were really just lucky to try to give her Vit B Complex. I have made a habit of immediately treating with probios and vit B complex as soon as I see a problem, and try to figure out the exact nature of the problem.

    The doe is doing really well now. Not 100% yet, but much, much better. She is eating and walking normal. Her milk seem to be coming in normal amount. I will keep giving her the Thiamine until I feel she is 100%. I noticed she was chewing the cud again this morning when I left.

    I wanted to add here something I think I am learning. I have 2 does that I have not had to treat in any way except for worming. They have never shown any ill symptoms. It appears to me that some of my does are less susceptible to illness than others. If this is true, then I believe that I should try to continue with those more healthy does, and get rid of the less healthy does. This is a dificult decision, because this particular doe I am treating now, is a first freshener, and looks to be real promising as a milker. These are the hard decisions for me.

    I really appreciate all the help I receive here. I have a great vet as far as being willing to help, but she does not know a lot about goats, and she is wiling to accept my input that I get from here. Thank you all.
     
  16. wwoodacres

    wwoodacres Active Member

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    vicki in listerios do they have other symtoms i have a pygmy that has a temp of 105 she is 3 y/o acts dizzy she did have a swelling in her jaw ,the vet said it was probably a mild infection from something stuck in gum that was 3 weeks ago the swelling got better. but she started acting sick yesterday she has a nasal discharge sways and sometimes shivers i live in florida so she hasnt been exposed to cold she also has a cough and no appetite any ideals