Help with buck!

Discussion in 'Goats' started by chma4, Dec 2, 2006.

  1. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    My herd sire has been "clicking" in his joints and been "off". Normal temp and optherwise normal body condition. He is almost 3. I treated with 3cc Vit. B , 1cc Ivermec, 5cc probiotic paste, and a CDT booster and sent him on his way. That was 4 days ago. Now he has one eye completely dilated and one is normal. This tells me something neurologic is going on. Please, if you have any ideas I would appreciate it.
     
  2. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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  3. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are there any forms of pinkeye that would dilate an eye?
     
  4. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    He pees and poops fine, does look a little haunched when he stands, but otherwise is completely normal (eating, drinking, grazing, escaping the pen). I dont know what else to say. The eyes concern me.
     
  5. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    Ok, Now this buck is loosing the hair around his ears and face. Hi s list of symptoms include : depression, hair loss, clicking joints, 1 eye dilated, and wheezing! I have always just kept him on a good grass hay, pasture and fresh water with access to a mineral block. Now I have treated for vit B def. I have added a free choice loose mineral supplement, dewormed with Ivermec, given him probiotics and now have started him on grain and baking soda (grain includes cocci treatment and ACl) What else should I be doing? He is going down Hill!
    Please help
     
  6. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What's his temp?
     
  7. HappyFarmer

    HappyFarmer Well-Known Member

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  8. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    Ok, meningial worm would show so me difficulty waking aor stumbling right? He has none of that, but if it is safe I will up the dose of Ivermectin for 3 days straight then use safe guard for 5. Does this meningial worm explain the balding and The one dilated eye? None of that was mentioned on the web site.
     
  9. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Is he by himself? Could he have had a head injury from fighting?

    Nothing explains all the symptoms and you aren't going to fix a mineral defficency bad enough to cause balding in your goats by moving from a block to loose minerals after all this time. If copper is bad enough for him to go bald around his eyes you would need to bolus.

    Is the eye injured? Is he now scrubbing the fur off his face from the eye bothering him or pressure behind the eye? Pressure behind the eye would cause severe pain, it would also explain the dialation.

    The wheezing is likely pnemonia setting in, goats rarely die of what is actually wrong with them...say this is a probelm with his eye or something neurological...so now he is stress...in pain, he will quickly build up the normal pasteurella in his nose to the point of pnemonia in his lungs.

    You can't treat cocci by adding a drugged feed, it is only for prevention, and a buck this age would have massive diarrhea if he had cocci in enough numbers to be causing these problems and certainly not be in adequate flesh before hand.

    Clicking joints is usually seen in CAE positive animals, or goats with poor conformation as they age, do his feet need to be trimmed?

    It's fine to treat diarrhea, anemia, and the myriad of other things that happen to our stock normally with the refridgerator method (worm, minerals, B vitamins etc...) a whole nother thing to try to treat a major neurological symptom like this on your own. You will loose this buck while we all try to come up with an answer. The problem with stuff like this is...we can't see the animal see what kind of condition he really is in, get our hands on him and do a very basic neurological exam...what I find is that most folks have no idea what body condtion scoring is and how it reflects on thier goats health, they miss the obvious signs that another person sees...why vets are soo important they help with that barn blindness all of us have to some extent.

    Please get him to the vet if you want to save him. Vicki
     
  10. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    Thank you for your advice. I was hoping someone would speak up with meaningful advice. It IS possible that the eye is due to injury. It is rut and he WAS the herd sire, but my young buck has taken over. I did not intend to treat cocci by using a treated feed, I mentioned it to be thorough. He has not developed a fever yet, and the wheezing was reported by my son. I however, when I went out to check on him, did not notice any wheezing. The baldness is around his ears, and at the base of his muzzle above his nostril, not just behind his eyes. He was not used this year for breeding so he was in pasture and these symptoms, for the most part went unnoticed. I Do think that vitamin defficiency is a good possibility, because I did NOT monitor his intake, but the eye thing really concerned me. I think that his clicking very well could be due to conformation, because he and ALL of my animals are from herds that practiced CAE prevention. He also has never shown any swelling in his joints. I do agree it is VERY hard to see when you look at your animals what an outsider might observe. I find this especially true with bucks. His coat is SO long and they are just SO smelly we try to avoid handling. I did however notice the change when he got depressed. I did notice when he went from a proud king to a sad second man. Is vitamin defficiency treatably or am I waisting my breath. I know a vet would be the best coarse of action, but as of now it might be difficult to convince hubby that he is worth it. I will see what I can do =(
     
  11. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    because he and ALL of my animals are from herds that practiced CAE prevention.
    .......................

    This really means very little unless you test. What some folks think as being CAE prevention is not what I consider it to be. Swollen knees is a just a symptom as is clicking knees, hard udders, pnemonia..do not discount one symptom for another for diagnosis.

    At the least use an excellent mineral to try to combat your mineral problems if this is what it is...use Buck Power from Caprinesupply.com I know folks who have near miracles with this in their bucks. What area are you in? And unused buck is a very sad depressed animal, they also can simply strip the hair from their face with urine scald as they age.

    If the eye is an injury, than until the pressure behind the eye subsides, he will continue to rub off the hair on his face, obcessively but also from pain (goats self mutilate themselves when they are in pain or severly stressed) and if this is the baldness, than you don't have mineral difficency causing this.

    Do you have some banamine? I would give him 1cc per 100 pounds (most bucks weigh alot more than folks think guess high or simply go the 1/2cc over the 100 or 200 pounds mark depending upon what breed he is, watch him, is he more alert about 20 mintues after the shot? This would make sense with the inflammation properties of banamine but also the pain relief. If this works it will be temporary, and you can only give banamine at a total dosage of 1cc per 100 pounds once a day, although you can break it down into several different times a day, perhaps 20 minutes or so, giving B vitamins at the same time, so he will be painfree to eat. If it's really cold where you live sweatshirt him, banamine will also bring his temp down.

    Take his temp daily for awhile, make sure you aren't dealing with opportunistic pnemonia...or put him on an antiboitic to make sure...any 200 mg tetracycline 3.5 cc per 100 pounds subq...or use SMTPZ (I always slaughter that name...sulfa pills from the vet....this will not only help with bacterial pnemonia that may set in but also cocci. Worm him also. Keep his diet as close to normal as you can, don't start offering him stuff his rumen is not used to.

    I have no idea in the world how to treat the eye, not even a guess. Vicki
     
  12. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    I am in new jersey, and so far there have been a few cold nights, but mostly it has been VERY unseasonably warm. He did loose a scur about a month ago, maybe he got an infection. He eats and drinks well. He also is alert, just sluggish and seems depressed. I dont have benamine but did give him vit. B. Should I continue the vit B.? I wormed him with Ivermec last week. Do you think another dose would be called for? I have been raising Nigies for 5 years now and in 3 generations, this is the first sign of any illness I have ever had. Well, after the fair my girls had the sneezes for a few days but that cleared right up. My bucks have been very healthy up until now (except for his clicking which started around the time he reached maturity). I have not noticed him rubbing his face, but he is a buck, I guess he probably wouldnt do it in front of me. I beleive in my heart that his main problem IS vitamin defficiency. I know the eye is an issue, but looking at him last night, it deffinately seemed to be responding to light when he was in a dark stall. He is isolated now, so he doesnt have to fight for food, water, minerals , or territory. Hopfully this new environment helps him destress and heal. Otherwise I will look for the buck minerals, and possibly antibiotics other than the penG I have. thank you again for your advice.
    Christina
     
  13. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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  14. chma4

    chma4 Wolverton Family Farm Supporter

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    No scabs, no bites, no crusties, and is only around his ears and above his nostrils. It looks like someone shaved spots with a razor. The skin is not even irritated underneath?
    ORF?