[Annaek]

Hi,
We are just starting our mini farm and recently got a Great Pyrenees puppy, 10 weeks old and from another farm with working parents. All we have at the moment is a small flock of chickens and two barn cats. We have done as much reading as we can, and from that our understanding is that if we want our dog to protect the barn and livestock, he needs to be there from day 1, not in our garage or by the house. He is currently in a large kennel in the barn with a smaller open crate inside that which he can go in to sleep; and we have been going out there every 2ish hours to let him out, get exercise, and do some obedience training, except for one longer stretch overnight. Anytime we are outside we let him out too. Our main concerns are:

A) should we worry about predators? We are in southern Indiana and coyotes, bobcats, and foxes are around. The kennel is chain link, taller than my 5’11” husband and has chicken wire secure over the top. We also have a tarp to lay to discourage digging but I am worried these measures aren’t enough.
B) Should we change any of our regimen with him since he is basically alone out there, aside from the chickens? He is too young to let him roam free outside; we are just starting out so we don’t have an older dog or many other animals like many training info sites assume.
For context, we have 14 acres with most of it with horse fencing (we are well aware we need some kind of escape-proof fencing or a Radio collar along with training him on the property boundaries etc., I am just asking about these early puppy days when he is vulnerable to predators), close neighbors, and the barn is about a football field length behind the house and it is older, so we do get pests breaking in like skunks, etc. Any info/advice is much appreciated!

 

[HDRider]

You can't let him run free outside of a fenced area, and he needs a partner. You can't expect a single dog to be protection.

 

[Lisa in WA]

I think he’s fine in the kennel in the barn as far as predators in Indiana. But do expect him to dig out at some point.
i don’t think you need two of them being in indiana. Here in Idaho, yeah. But there…I think you’re fine.
i’ve lived in Indiana too.

 

[HDRider]

I think he’s fine in the kennel in the barn as far as predators in Indiana. But do expect him to dig out at some point.
i don’t think you need two of them being in indiana. Here in Idaho, yeah. But there…I think you’re fine.
i’ve lived in Indiana too.

How is a dog going to protect things in a kennel?

I would not expect a single GP to protect against coyotes. Do they have coyotes in Indiana?

 

[Pony]

Your pup needs a partner or two, and perhaps something more to protect than chickens and cats.

I will suggest that you not allow the pup to be alone with the poultry. At his age, they are enticing toys with which to play -- until, of course, the "batteries" run out, and the poor bird stops moving...

 

[HDRider]

Your pup needs a partner or two, and perhaps something more to protect than chickens and cats.

I will suggest that you not allow the pup to be alone with the poultry. At his age, they are enticing toys with which to play -- until, of course, the "batteries" run out, and the poor bird stops moving...

I agree on all points

 

[altair]

I highly recommend Farei Kennels: MeWe - The Next-Gen Social Network. Not only do they counter the myth that dogs should be ditched with as little intervention as possible, but they're breeders and trainers of both LGDs, heelers, and border collies.

 

[HDRider]

dogs should be ditched with as little intervention

What does that mean?

 

[Lisa in WA]

How is a dog going to protect things in a kennel?

I would not expect a single GP to protect against coyotes. Do they have coyotes in Indiana?

a dog won’t be protecting anything as a puppy which is what I believe the OP is asking about.
As far as the number of LGDs, given a place like Indiana and the small number of animals it is guarding, it’s not necessary to have more than one LGD.
I do realize that wherever it is you and Pony live (Arkansas and Missouri?) have far more fearsome predators than we do in the mountains of Idaho but given that, I know plenty of people here with one LGD to guard their sheep.

LGDs are best as a deterrent, not going into combat with coyotes.

How many LGD do I need?

A blog about ranching in Alberta, (Canada) sheep, cattle, livestock guardian dogs, sarplaninac, border collies predators and wildlife.

predator-friendly-ranching.blogspot.com

 

[HDRider]

I do realize that wherever it is you and Pony live (Arkansas and Missouri?) have far more fearsome predators than we do in the mountains of Idaho

Don't you guys have bears, mountain lions, wolves and other things like that? That would be much worse than anything I have.

 

[Lisa in WA]

Don't you guys have bears, mountain lions, wolves and other things like that? That would be much worse than anything I have.

Yes we do. Grizzlies, blacks, wolves, cougars, lynx, etc.
We had three and two Pyrs for our sheep but we were fairly remote and had grizzlies, cougar and wolves right in our yard.
eventually we had only one.
And he did fine alone too.
the predators avoid LGDs. They have no wish to tangle with them.
So on a small Indiana homestead with few animals, one LGD will do just fine.

 

[altair]

What does that mean?

Thinking the dog trains itself and doesn't need much of any human intervention other than food.

 

[Lisa in WA]

Thinking the dog trains itself and doesn't need much of any human intervention other than food.

Yes, that isn’t a smart idea. Our dogs knew to guard instinctively but we did basic obedience training and socialization. Also some dominance work because we had kids.

 

[HDRider]

Thinking the dog trains itself and doesn't need much of any human intervention other than food.

I see.

My two dog really only needed chicken training. Their instinct are very strong and work as a team.

 

[Pony]

Don't you guys have bears, mountain lions, wolves and other things like that? That would be much worse than anything I have.

We have bears, mountain lions, bobcats, wolves, foxes, raccoons, snakes...

The only ones the dogs really don't control is the sneaky black snakes. Black snakes slither their way into my chicken house, and suck down eggs.

 

[Annaek]

Thanks everyone for your input, it is much appreciated! For clarification, we do plan on having more animals between now and the next couple of years and at some point may consider a second GP. My question was more for our current situation as we are getting started out. We are doing basic obedience training and socialization with people (we need to be able to have people over on our property fairly often, and poachers, etc. are not a problem), and he is never around the chickens unsupervised- we are definitely heeding those warnings.

It sounds like it is okay to keep him in the kennel when we cannot be there to supervise him, particularly overnight.
According to people familiar with our property in the past, we do have a lot of coyotes around (as well as other "fun" creatures like skunks..) -- until he grows old & big enough to start actually guarding, I am more concerned right now with protecting him at night from predators, followed by wondering how we transition him.
Assuming we have basic obedience training down and have appropriate, sufficient fencing on the property, at what point would you recommend we can let him outside of the kennel when we are back at the house and not there supervising? And at what point can an LGD spend their nights outside of the kennel and start truly guarding? Again, ideally I would have loved to already have all our animals plus an older dog to help "train" him but we are just getting off the ground.

Thanks so much, everyone and sorry for the delay, I didn't see the notification that there had been responses!

 

[Annaek]

I highly recommend Farei Kennels: MeWe - The Next-Gen Social Network. Not only do they counter the myth that dogs should be ditched with as little intervention as possible, but they're breeders and trainers of both LGDs, heelers, and border collies.

Thank you! Looking into this- have you had personal experience with their resources?

 

[altair]

They have training files in their group. I pay $2.99 for basic access to the training files (good for any dog really, not only LGDs), but their posts are free and you can reach out to the admins any time with questions.

I've been following back when their group was on Facebook and did go to a weekend camp where they live in Maine to see the dogs hands on and watch some training.

My husband isn't on board at this time for another dog, not to mention we have no dog fencing, but I would apply for one of the pups in a heartbeat. Tarma breeds Kangals and her sister Katerina breeds Great Pyrenees.