great pyr lgd training aids/suggestions?

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by pepper, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. pepper

    pepper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    M~i~ss~i~ss~i~pp~i !
    hullo,
    got a great pyr this winter, she is now 5 mths. old and huge! lol

    i got her at 3mths. old and had to teach her english and socialize her. since she had been raised w/ mom, pop,sibs, & goats then penned in a 4x6 cage until her sale.
    she house broke in under 2 weeks, rings a bell on the door to go out,will play fetch ,deals w/ kids, cats,new people very well [as long as i introduce them], chases off cats that don't live here, walks/marks her territory,and is doing better w/ the poultry but still has an unhealthy fascination with fluffy cochins.

    but i would really like to further her voice command training?
    as in city fools..uh folks who leave the gate open and the dog books into the 100 acre pine forest across the road and i would like to be able to call her to come back.
    the last lady who let her out, ran to her car & got out dog treats to 'lure' her back with, i told her that doesn't work, she said of course it works...she has a lab... her dog probably runs away to get the treats, my beastie didn't even look up from the fascinating smells of forbidden forest !

    so i am asking for any recomendations on books and such that you have had luck with for working lgd.

    i mean that great pyr. at the westminster dog show that made the top ten had to be a retriever in a great pyr suit ! lol!->pepper
     
  2. westbrook

    westbrook In Remembrance

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Go to http://lgd.org and join the LGD-L list. Once you have joined you will be able to talk with the top GP breeders in the world... even the owner of the GP at Westminster.
     

  3. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,528
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alaska
    Not sure your expectations are reasonable considering this breed but I THINK you just need general obedience training. How far you can go will depend a lot on your and her temperament. ;) Here's a site with great articles for LGD training: http://shahbazinanatolianshepherds.com/tablecon.htm
     
  4. mikell

    mikell Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    932
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Location:
    South West MI
    Great Pyr don't take orders well more like cats but not as smart.Owning one is like having a boat the 2 best days are the day you get them and the day you get rid of them. The only dog I ever gave away and I paid a lot of money for them.

    mikell
     
  5. Julia

    Julia Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    391
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    I also think that when you're doing research, you should look into just how many obedience trial champions are Pyrs---not Westminster or the conformation show stats---but the Companion Dog title, and other advanced obedience training. The LGD breeds are almost nonexistent in that group, and for good cause. They are just not interested in being trained, having been bred for hundreds of years to work without human supervision. They work by trusting their own judgement, not yours.

    That's not to say that you can't get a good 60 or 70% recall on your Pyr, just that you will see them think every time about whether or not to obey today. Very few are reliable that way, so your best bet is darn good fences so the point isn't open to consideration.

    So I would advise you to lower your expectations, and accept that these are just strong-minded dogs and resolve to work around that by building excellent fences.
     
  6. mysticokra

    mysticokra Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    329
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Location:
    Estillfork, Alabama
    We learned the hard way that a Pyr thinks the whole world is his territory.
    Ours had been responding to off leash voice commands, patroling the yard at night before coming to sleep on the porch, etc. We wondered what all the "wanderlust" talk was about. And then he disappeared for two months.

    We searched for miles, met lots of new neighbors and finally decided someone had stolen the boy.

    One afternoon he prances into the neighbor's yard, 4 miles down the road.
    They called and we brought him home. He was a bedraggled mess!

    It tooks us two hours to clean him up.

    We now keep him on leash, at least until the goat fence is up and then he has a job! Kinda like raising teenagers. :haha:
     
  7. longshadowfarms

    longshadowfarms Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,528
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Location:
    Alaska
    Wow! That's kind of harsh! Sounds like either you didn't do enough research on the breed or your breeder or you got really unlucky. My experience with Pyrs is that they are INCREDIBLY smart. I've had days where I've had to sit down for a few hours and really think through how I'm going to get ahead of the dog. My last Pyr figured out every gate on the place. Not that he wanted to go far, he mostly just liked to go out to the stream behind the house and get a drink :rolleyes: He just wouldn't close the gate behind himself and then the male labs would go walk-about. If you had dumb ones, then you had poor representatives of the breed.
     
  8. momofmany

    momofmany Dayenu farms

    Messages:
    712
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Location:
    colo-Dado! As my enthusiatic 4 yo calls it.
    My pyr gets into soooo much trouble, but believe me it isn't because he is dumb. I think that the trouble that people get into with pyrs comes from a lack of research. As was said before they see sit and stay as being beneath them. Mine barks at everything coming by, He doesn't not listen to me yell at him to stop out of rebellion. I got him because his job is to protect us (his flock) and so he will bark until he is assured that the point was made, even if it means dis regarding me for a second longer than I would like. He uses his judgement, not mine.
    I still get upset...but I knew this when I got him.

    Hang in there with your puppy, I think you will find that your puppy will grow into an incredible animal that is a joy to behold and be with.

    Nicole
     
  9. Tana Mc

    Tana Mc Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    1,027
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Ks
    I own 5 Pyrs. They are working dogs. Basically you don't train them-- they train you!! :haha: I never lose a minute of sleep at night worrying about preditors, thieves, or one of the goats having trouble kidding. If there is trouble on the ranch that they can't handle, they will come get me. Somehow, with out ever being in the house, they know which window is mine. Otherwise, my job is to milk, fix fence, and feed the whole mob. The very idea of obedience training them is hysterically funny to me.....Yetti, Snowball, Morgan, Stanley and Oliver would probably die laughing at the thought, too. ;)
    As far as the wandering, I keep a full automatic dog feeder on the front porch and in the feed house. That seems to keep them close as well as utter exhaustion from defending us from the hordes of coyotes that keep them hopping all night. Besides, we have 12000 acres of public land in our back yard. They can wander and never see a soul for days.... but they haven't yet.
    I am some what of a Type A personality and it has been very hard for me to adjust to such an independent dog. Now that I have a "pack" who know that I couldn't possibly raise even a single goat kid with out them, their arrogance has just overwhelmed me. I have mellowed greatly with age.......
    Tana Mc
     
  10. marvella

    marvella Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,910
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2003
    Location:
    tn
    yep, i never trained either of my pyrs. they trained me. some days my current dog looks at me like i am stupid, and i should just go back to the house and let him handle things. the best thing you can do for a pyr is give him a job to do. it's what they are bred for. all i ever did with either of them is put them in with the goats, then they figured it out. it is really quite amazing to watch. he leads them out in the morning, sets the pace, takes them over for a drink, then leads them to the corner of the pasture he thinks they should be in. try giving your dog charge of a child, or a flock of chickens, or something for him to guard. i also agree that a good fence is essential to keep your dog out of trouble. their territory is anything they can see.
     
  11. pepper

    pepper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    M~i~ss~i~ss~i~pp~i !
    Well i don't find sissy [dog under discussion] dumb, i want a willfull lgd not a compainion dog, i know her breed is notoriously hard to train, i was asking for first hand exp. or book recomendations on teaching her to come when i called.
    i don't need her to sit,stay,beg, i have been successfull in teaching her english,& not to jump on people or put her paws on people. so i hope she can learn to come when i call! i skimmed a couple of obedience books but i agree w/ ms. tana mc, they just seemed hilarious for a working guardian dog.

    every one of the lgd owners of working dogs i spoke to before deciding on getting one said it was not good to take them off the job. the advicefor happy working dogs went from minimal human contact [field 24/7] to letting the dogs in the house daily.

    oh mikell sorry you didn't like your pyr, but seeing that i own a boat & still use it regularly it seems there are people who like ornery things & those that don't! ;)


    "I think you must take some responsibility here for keeping your dog safe. I don't go for the old "BUT SOMEONE LEFT THE GATE OPEN" excuse. It doesn't wash."
    -eek! is is cold dark & rainy up there ms.little quaker or were you just feeling generally grouchy? =)
    we all have different styles of homesteading and mine involves a large amount of the general public so the gate remedies you use won't fly here. i was just using the example of how i was last 1 hour late to work, after tramping after sissy thru the forest. now she is big enough to show me a weak spot in my fencing every 3 days or so! i tried searching the archives when i was first puppy shopping ,lots of disscussion not much hard training info. i could find the book "art of training your puppy" but it was for the socialization of the pup in its first 3 mths. something this dog was sadly lacking in. now the book by the same monks "how to be your dogs best friend" looks interesting so i'll check it out.

    ms.? marvella, she has a flock of free range chickens/guineas/ducks/cats pigs & a 4 yr. old human to guard from coyotes,wolves,snakes,bears,possums and the ever present un fenced/feral dogs around here. she likes her job but seems to want to find more to add to her herd or drive off further than the fence line. most folks have been saying the worst wandering is done in the first year & tapers off quickly after that, i know i'm crossing my fingers! & driving inummerable fence posts & barb wire extentions.

    i really don't want to re-make her into a lab or bend her to my will i just want a good chance she will come when i call! so again any one have luck w/ a particular book-training style-treat-bribe to train a livestock guardian dog to come when not otherwise defending the flock?
     
  12. poppy

    poppy Guest

    I had 2 that died of old age. Smartest dogs I ever had, but they were fiercely independant. I kept them with pygmy goats and they took it seriously without any training. They would stand all day if you petted them, but look at you like you were nuts if they were out with the goats and you called them to come to you. They would let their dog food go to eat goat feed. My male would catch large catfish in the shallow end of the pond, jump in and toss them out on the bank. He would eat the entire fish, bones and all and all that was left was the skull with no meat on it. They can climb a gate like a bear and will mosy off in any direction, often for miles.
     
  13. pjd

    pjd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Mine will come if I say Bubba want a weenie in a singsong babytalk voice unless he is killing something. If he is chasing something or killing something I can YELL Leave it in a firm voice about 5-10 times and he will stop but will continue to bark and walk back real real slow with a tremendous attitude. He guards outside in the day and when everything is locked up, he sleeps in the house with the kids at night. He is four and it has taken a lot to train him to leave it.