Good Health for Seniors

Discussion in 'Homesteading and Retirement' started by MoonRiver, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    Only because you seem to spend lots of time going to lots of Dr's.
     
  2. no really

    no really Well-Known Member

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    It's not about eroding it's about being your own advocate. After my father was prescribed a med that he was allergic to and one that was not recommended for glaucoma patients, he as the doc is prescribes he checks for problems with allergic reactions and interactions. Thank goodness he had a good pharmacist that caught both mistakes. ( his allergies were in his file with the prescribing doc)
     
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  3. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    So what message would you like people to take away from that?
     
  4. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    That in the end it makes little difference what you do.
    You will die anyway.

    No two people are identical, so there are no treatments that work for everyone, and a lot of people won't follow the Dr's instructions but will still blame them if things don't go well.
     
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  5. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    As a medical treatment philosophy, that's ridiculous! Medicine is all about relieving suffering and and prolonging life. Anyone who doesn't believe in that should stay out of medicine.

    Modern medicine has the capability of extending the lives of heart patients by decades. That's no small thing when it's your own family member. Ask any heart attack survivor and he'll tell you that when he visits his cardiologist that he receives very practical advice on staying alive.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't know when to quit. I saw in the news that Barbara Bush is taking a pass on advanced medicine. She has elected to die at home sooner rather than later. If she's at peace with that then that's fine with me. But she's in her 90s and fighting CHF.
     
  6. MoonRiver

    MoonRiver SM Entrepreneuraholic Supporter

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    You have absolutely no idea how many doctors I have seen, so why the uncalled for insult? Is this what you do on Sunday nights for entertainment?
     
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  7. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    But oddly it often has the opposite effect.

    Most were told before their heart attacks what could be done to prevent them, but they didn't listen.

    Just like obese people who go to a Dr and act surprised when they are told they need to control what they eat.

    Medical treatments are all really "experimental" in the sense that each person is an individual who will respond differently to medications, and they should remain flexible when deciding what is best for them.
     
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  8. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    There was no "insult".

    You posted what several different Dr's had told you, and that's far more than many people see in a decade.

    I only go by what you say yourself.
    By your own admission it seems you're going from Dr to Dr looking for one to tell you what you want to hear.

    Many of your posts are about your numerous Dr visits and medical problems.
    If you don't like comments about them, you shouldn't be bringing them up on public forums.
     
  9. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    I'm not sure of your point.
     
  10. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    My point is most ignore good medical advice until they start having symptoms.

    Then when a Dr tells them the same things they've heard for years they act surprised, like it's something new. The truth is they were receiving that same advice already but they thought it didn't apply to them because they had no symptoms.
     
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  11. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    My father was a doctor. In fact he was an internist specializing in preventative medicine. He had bypass surgery at 60, then died of a coronary at 79. I suppose he knew better, but he was a meat lover. He wasn't going to live on green salad when there are so many fun, greasy things to eat.

    But I still don't understand your point. Is the suggestion that they don't deserve treatment because they didn't take better care of themselves? I had a father for 19 more years of life, courtesy of his bypass surgery.
     
  12. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    My point is no matter what they do the end results are typically the same.
    Had you father eaten properly he might have been able to avoid surgery.
    Not everyone responds the same way though.
    Many blame Dr's when they can't get a quick easy "cure".
     
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  13. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    It appears that the discussion is being interpreted as more personal by a couple of people than what it appears to someone with no skin in the game.
     
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  14. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    Living 20 years longer isn't the same result as dying right now.

    Actually, statins offer a quick cure. You can have your steak and low cholesterol too.
     
  15. no really

    no really Well-Known Member

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    Doc attempted to prescribe my Mom statins, she asked him about the problems with statins and type2 diabetes. This was a prophylactic script as she did not have cholesterol problems. He admitted that it is a problem. She declined and told him to get back to her when they solved the problem.

    WEDNESDAY, March 4, 2015 (HealthDay News) -- Cholesterol-lowering statin drugs may significantly increase a person's risk of developing type 2 diabetes, a new study from Finland suggests.

    Researchers found that statins were associated with an almost 50 percent higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes, even after adjusting for other factors.

    Statins appear to increase the risk of type 2 diabetes in several ways, the researchers said. One is that the drugs can increase a person's insulin resistance, and the other is that the cholesterol-lowering drugs seem to impair the ability of the pancreas to secrete insulin, according to the report.

    https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20150304/statins-linked-to-raised-risk-of-type-2-diabetes#1
     
  16. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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    While that's true, type 2 diabetes isn't like juvenile diabetes. While the mechanism of type 2 diabetes is somewhat complicated, suffice it to say that when you get old your internal organs don't work as well as they did when you were young. About 25% of persons over 65 have type 2 diabetes, and that number goes up with age. Of persons over 80 it's more like half. Most seniors accept that they'll develop type 2 diabetes long before they have it. And it's not usually treated with insulin injections. Daily pills nearly always lower blood sugar to an acceptable level. Properly diagnosed and treated type 2 diabetes need not impact either quality of life or longevity.

    But the side effects of statins are no joke. Most serious is liver damage. Doctors monitor liver enzymes of patents who take large doses of statins. But if you're taking 20mg or less of lipitor per day you're probably not tested for that. Taking 1000mg of flush-free niacin each day could get your numbers low enough to lower your dose of statins, so I would encourage anyone fighting cholesterol to give it a try.

    Like most prescription medications, statins are a trade-off of risk vs reward. The side effects of statins are serious, but so is dying of a heart attack or stroke. Your doctor isn't going to take prescribing high doses of statins lightly. And you don't need to tell your doctor about the side effects of statins because he already knows.

    Dosage is critical to side effects. The people most at risk are those taking 40mg to 80mg per day of lipitor. But if someone is taking large doses like that he's probably already a heart attack victim just trying to stay alive.
     
  17. no really

    no really Well-Known Member

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    From the same article. Also including in the article was the propensity of the drug for muscle pain and weakness. I would only take a in this class if I was told I'd die tomorrow. It seems a high risk drug and not appropriate for prophylactic use.

    High-dose simvastatin was associated with a 44 percent increased risk of developing diabetes, while for low-dose simvastatin the increased risk was 28 percent. High-dose atorvastatin was linked to a 37 percent increased diabetes risk, the study found.

    Based on these findings, physicians will have to weigh risks versus benefits before prescribing statins, said Dr. Al Powers, director of the division of diabetes, endocrinology and metabolism at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.
     
  18. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

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    I would strongly trust surgeons for trauma surgery. Get shot or in car accident and truly good chance if you are near larger hospital and make it there in time that you will survive.

    Disease and GP doc, not so much. They are like an automotive technician as opposed to a true traditional mechanic. They have ten minutes to interview you and come up with a diagnosis. They rarely research anything. Too low on food chain to do that. Only super expensive specialists that might go that far and I doubt many of them actually do. They tend to know little to nothing of nutrition and dont want to spend time trying to explain what they do know, figuring you will ignore it anyway. They are there to do things the factory way and fix symptoms with pills, the way that is covered by standard insurance, even if the factory way doesnt quite fit the circumstances and even if the results are mediocre at best.

    Unfortunately fee for service is pretty poor way to run a health care system. Profit should be last thing that dictates diagnosis and treatment. But thats how its done in the good ole USA.
     
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  19. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

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    My doc when I was first diagnosed with diabetes said he was told to automatically put any new type2 diabetic immediately on statins WITHOUT any testiing. I told him it was unlikely I had cholesterol problem as I was a lifelong vegetarian. So he held off until after tests and found I indeed didnt need statins. My blood pressure was high as my body was very stressed. He put me on insulin to stabilize me and my blood pressure was normal within a month. Within two more month I had blood sugar controlled through diet and no more insulin. Most people with type2 arent willing to change diet drastically so need insulin or pills forever. Also its lot more expensive to eat low carb. Fresh produce simply costs lot money. While I was waiting in exam room heard him yelling at some other diabetic who wasnt following direction. When he saw my results, he just said keep doing whatever you are doing. He at that point hadnt given me any dietary instructions except parting remark at one early exam to "knock off the sugar".

    What I learned, I found on my own. The official diabetic diet by way is standard low fat, high carb, just suggestions of making it healthier and strictly limiting portions (which never works long term for any diet). They make assumption everybody is eating SAD that gets diabetes. By way back before insulin or other diabetic drugs, the high fat, low carb diet was the ONLY way to control blood sugar for a type2. Type1 before insulin was just a dead man walking. Still works though think some forget its high FAT, not high protein.
     
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  20. MoonRiver

    MoonRiver SM Entrepreneuraholic Supporter

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    The Internet has done that to most professions. We have access to the same information that prior to the Internet only a chosen few had access to. It's not that doctor's are getting dumber, it's that many patients are getting smarter.

    I have successfully done many things in the last year that even 5 years ago I couldn't have done. From wiring my new van for towing my trailer to installing new bearings on my trailer to replacing a few damaged bricks, information is available in seconds to teach us almost anything if we are willing to make the effort.

    I can order my own medical labs on line. I can get my own DNA analysis done without my doctor having to be the gatekeeper. I can research drugs and see if there might be better options. I can do many of the things my doctor is not willing to take the time to do. It's doctors who need to catch up with their patients.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018 at 8:37 PM
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