Going in halves with friends!.......Sorry,kind of long

Discussion in 'Pigs' started by kath2003, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    Heres the thing,we went 1/2 and 1/2 on 4 piglets this past fall with a friend.Never having pigs before we needed all kinds of stuff to get set up for this adventure.After buying the piglets at 10 weeks,getting them from Vermont to New York,$ for hay,some hog feed,fencing,and more fencing,and my husband drives 8 miles every morning and picks up day old produce,boxes of it,from the local grocery store.We also bought 2 huge apple crates full of whole corn for them at $132.00.All total came to $579.00 to begin this whole thing.Not including the trips to the store everyday.Now,the plan is, we get one for the freezer,he gets one,and we are breeding the other two.
    This is my problem,he invested his $300.00 back in Nov. when we got them home.The animals are on our farm,we do ALL the work involved.He has done NOTHING at all.Oh,he did help catch them once when they escaped!
    Now,he is asking when does he get his pig in the freezer?
    Please correct me if I'm wrong,but doesn't he have to pay something for the 250# hog when its ready?
    I think he owes something,somehow.I do all the work,get all the food,make sure they are healthy,happy pigs.Something doesn't feel fair here for being 1/2 and 1/2.
    He also says he will never shovel pig &#!+. When I say he has done nothing,I mean nothing.Sorry this is so long,I am just at a loss on how to deal with this now.Can someone please give me some insight? Thanks,
     
  2. dustin2112

    dustin2112 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Location:
    Missouri
    He owes for the cost of the feeder pig, then half of the overall cost for feed, and supplies. Then if he wants his pig in the freezer he should pay for his pig to be butchered and processed.
     

  3. tsdave

    tsdave Grand Marshal

    Messages:
    231
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2002
    First did they pay $300 then you paid $579, or they paid $300 of the $579 ?

    Next, they should pay processing on their pig.

    Unfortunatly this is an adventure, as you put it. I have raised pigs for others, and simply split the monetary costs. Very bad idea. I do all the work, put up all the capital (land, pens, if the loose, smell, tools etc) and worst take the blame if something goes wrong. The ONLY way you should do this is if they are doing half the work, providing half the materials, and paying half the bills, all three ! :) Even then you better be good friends or family.

    4 pigs should eat about 4,600 lbs of feed to get them grown to 230 lbs. Feed here costs less than $10/100lb. so it should cost about $460 in feed to get them all to 230 lbs plus vet/medicines if necessary.

    What should you do ? Find out what else they are planning on paying for, and if they are going to do half the work for the breeding stock. If they dont plan to pay more for the freezer pigs, jump ship ! If they wont start full halfsies on the breeding pair , jump ship !

    To jump ship: tally up how much was spent total, how much they paid, even it out, give them two pigs.

    Its hard for people uninvolved to know how much work it is to feed and water pigs, espically in the middle of winter !
     
  4. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    We paid for everything to get started.Then 2 weeks ago he paid $300.00 towards his freezer pig.The idea was that we would breed them,sell them as piglets.He's figuring out what his half of the profits would be for selling the piglets! I'm thinking,up untill now,his 300.00 is for his pig and nothing more.Does that sound fair? Then he is done,what we do from there is on us.He gets a finished hog for 300.00.
    I read all the posts in the Raising for sale thread.Sounds reasonable to me.Thanks for the help
     
  5. mink

    mink Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    425
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    ny
    kathy , half and half doesnt mean 50-50 huh .
     
  6. Siryet

    Siryet In Remembrance

    Messages:
    847
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    River Valley, Arkansas
    What was the original agreement when you agreed to do all the work? I think the fellow is responsible for what he agreed to 50/50 split and no more, but most important no less

    Doesn't he still own 50% of the two breeding pigs/hogs ?

    Make an offer to buy out his remaining share if it is bothering you and that way you can get on with the fun part of hog raising.
     
  7. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    What does that mean??
     
  8. mink

    mink Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    425
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    ny
    means your doing it all and your friend is taking advantage of you
     
  9. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    The original agreement was that he was paying for the whole thing to get started.Then,we get a pig for the freezer,he gets one for the freezer.He said he wants no part of doing any work involved.He said he was the money part and we were the labor part.The other two would be bred and shared.
    Right after we got them home he lost his job.So he said,he'll pay half for everything,but would I still do the work? Ok,fine.Well,he hasn't payed anything else and won't do any work involved.That is why I was not sure how to proceed with this,if at all.
    By the way,the purchase of the pigs was when they weighed 15 pounds,not 230#.
     
  10. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    Thats what I think to,but part of me feels like he payed 300.00 to get started but when does his amount of investment run out? I guess thats my question really.
     
  11. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

    Messages:
    2,476
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Lynnwood, Washington
    Basically, I'd totally split forces with this fellow. You've done all the initial work and set up, all the work since then, and put out all the money up front. His interest is just as though he were buying a freezer hog from someone, and I'd treat the deal that way.

    I'd give him back his $300. Or, if he still wants pork for his freezer, treat him like a customer. Find out what the going price is for home-raised pork in your area. A local butcher should have a good idea. The price is usually based on hanging weight (HW) and doesn't include processing. So, if he wants a 230# hog, at $1.75 per pound HW, figuring HW is 70% of live weight - 230*0.7*1.75=$281.75 to you for buying and raising the pig to butcher weight. Killing and processing fees would be extra, and his to pay. Rember this is a rough estimate, and I'm guessing at the price per pound HW, so the figures will vary somewhat. If he doesn't want the pork, someone else will likely be happy to buy it from you if you advertise locally.

    Usually, with cattle, the butcher kills and hangs the animal. Then he tells you what the hanging weight is, and your customer pays you appropriately. You tell the butcher you've been paid. Your customer goes to the butcher shop to pick up the meat, and pays the butcher for his services at that time. I don't know whether pigs hang or are cut up immediately, and I know there is often more processing involved, for sausage, hams, bacon, etc., so there will be some differences.
     
  12. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    That sounds good to me.We won't be doing that again,thats for sure!!I printed out the whole thread on Raising for sale,has lots of info for him to read! Thanks everyone.
     
  13. QueenB04

    QueenB04 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    362
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia
    Alright, I have a question. I'm a little confused with this subject. I understand the principles of it, great idea. My problem is I'm in Virginia. Virginia is not happy with the little farm, and the idea of selling home raised meat to the consumer market, even if it's butchered and packaged at a lic. butcherer. It is illegal. However we can GIVE as much away as we want! Long subject I'll start another time. However we have 2 pigs, my boar(who is like my child*l* Sounds silly, but I bottle raised him and now at 7 months and 150 he thinks he can still sit on my lap and take a nap. Great way to keep a boar though! And my hampshire sow. We're hoping for piglets late sping/ summer time. We've had interest from several people in piglets who want them for meat. Now, I could sell them for $35 a piece, or could wait to finish them for the owner and have them pay for butchering, at weight per pound? Is that what I'm understanding? How is this more profitable? I think it would give a good repoir to the consumers from what I've read from you all. Help me out. Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, I'm just trying to figure out all the details and am slightly confused with the diff. ways people are doing it. Look forward to hearing from you all!
     
  14. QueenB04

    QueenB04 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    362
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Location:
    Virginia
    Woops! Sorry guys posted in the wrong forum, meant to go under Single Piggies. Sorry!
     
  15. AskelHill

    AskelHill New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Been there....done that.......with my brother-in-law as the 'silent partner'. The lesson I learned was "Never again"
     
  16. kath2003

    kath2003 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Location:
    western NY
    Amen to that!! :no:
     
  17. highlands

    highlands Walter Jeffries Staff Member Supporter

    Messages:
    9,716
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    Mountains of Vermont, Zone 3
    To give you a point of reference, we sell the full grown hogs, delivered to the butcher, for $350. The buyer then pays for killing, skinning/scraping and butchering (cut & wrapped).

    A lot hinges on your original agreement and it sounds like that has changed over time with you providing all of the labor. It sounds like this is an unfortunate situation where things didn't work out as situations changed and perhaps expectations were not exactly the same. I would agree with other people's assessment that it is probably time to end things with either a buy out, refund or division and dispersion of the pigs.

    Try to end things on as amiable a basis as possible. It may be water under the bridge but don't let the bridge burn.

    Good luck!

    -Walter
    in Vermont
     
  18. jerzeygurl

    jerzeygurl woolgathering

    Messages:
    2,601
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Location:
    mo

    He broke the original agreement first. give him his money back and say have a good day, wanna by a pig :haha:
     
  19. TurnKey

    TurnKey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    50
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Location:
    Michigan
    I agree with everybody else on this one. Tell him the $300 is for him to buy his pig. Then tell him he's out of the loop unless he gets more involved. Then breed for yourselves, or sell the other two to recoup your money.

    I did the same concept with a friend of mine. We bought six feeder pigs (20 lbs. each) in August. She kept them at her place until they were about 100 lbs each. By then I had finished my pen and shelter, so we moved them over to my place. At the end of January she borrowed a trailer and we loaded them up to go to the processor. We both put one pig each in our freezers, and sold the rest- free pork for us both. The way we split costs was, she bought 5 bags of feed, then I bought 5 bags, etc. for the feed costs. Since I had the costs of the fencing, etc, she paid for the wormer and any meds that were needed. I did the feeding and watering for the last part, but she had it when they were smaller- and she did a great job of taming all six. Even when they were 250 lbs, we could walk freely throughout their pen without any harrassment from them. When the spring thaw comes, her teenage son and my son, along with us, will be out in the pen with shovels and wheelbarrows for cleanup. For us, it worked out great! We're planning another batch in April!