Genetic ??????

Discussion in 'Goats' started by silosounds, Dec 1, 2004.

  1. silosounds

    silosounds Well-Known Member

    Nov 12, 2004
    in the middle
    We purchased a buck from a lady who has a large dairy and she breeds for milk production. He is rated by the ADGA high in milk production.

    We purchased a doe from a smaller herd and is a smaller goat, but has a nice bag. Her production is low. She was bred when we bought her. We got a girl and a boy out of her. We wethered the boy and sold him. We bred both does back to the original buck and they produced triplets and a single.

    We kept a buck from our original doe’s daughter to breed him back to our original doe (or his grandmother) and any of her offspring would be a great-aunt to him. Is this type of breeding too close in blood-line? We really don’t want two billys, but couldn’t figure out a way to get offspring further from the buck without buying more does from a possibly infected herd. How close is too close or do you have any other ideas?

    We want to try to get a little larger animal out of these goats, is there a way without purchasing another goat?

    Sorry for the aunts, uncles, dads, and grandpas … don’t know how to do the sires and dam bit.

  2. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2002
    North of Houston TX
    Of course this is all guessing....if the doe is genetically vertically challenged, perhaps short legged, short bodied, and what you see in the bucks bloodline is a much taller more elegant longer boned dairy goat, than yes he will add size to about 50% of his daughters. Would I use a son out of these original, not if the genetic shortness comes from them. Now if they are short from breeding to the wrong animals, or illness (cocci etc.) you can sometimes see this in big tall older does and smaller subsequent daughters and grand daughters.

    Always ask yourself...if this buck can improve this doe by 50%, is it worth 250$? Because in lots of cases it's better to ditch your original does you purchase, because they are usually a mistake, and buy better, than to grow out and try to then improve yet again another generation of goats, who cost about 250$ a year to keep.

    The whole point in breeding, be it out crossing to another breed, out breeding to another bloodline, or inbreeding to bring in more of the quality you see and want in the buck you bought, is that you have to know what throws what and who gave the buck the quality you are seeing.....and are you learnered enough in breeding this particular breed to even know what you are doing?

    Inbreeding without sound culling practices, meaning you can't keep everything, breeds mediocore goats, in meat animals this means less meat to sell, and in milk it means milk that costs more since it takes more grain and everything else to produce that small amount of milk.

    If you are looking for milk, than yes size does play a part, since most of the time the bigger taller doe with more width will milk more than a smaller narrower doe. Milk production has to come from an overall package, a doe who can graze on good feet and legs, a doe who has the length of body and the width without being course to hold that udder high and tight in her body, away from briars and being scratch up. A doe with nice size teats for handmilking. And when I want to improve on anything like this, I look for a buck whose mom is consistantly throwing and comes from these things.

    Yes use the original buck on these does, and even on his daughters, but to use a buck out of these does? No. Go back to the original breeder of the buck and get another linebred buck, not his brother but perhaps a buck that shares a common grandsire. In the gals paperwork you will find where her quality came from, it can be one animal or a whole bloodline, search it out, go "back to the well" and use this new young buck next year. In two more generations you can go back to your original buck..then perhaps you will have improved your doe line to include a buck who is good enough to put your herdname on, and to use on your own does. This is the first year in 18 years of breeding goats that I am breeding to a buck out of my herd, when looking around at other folks goats who I admire, my bucks dam is just as good, milks better, has better feet and legs, and didn't cost 1000$ :)

    Breeding and genetics are half the fun of having goats, be it making a doe who milks and wins in the showring, or making a new breed. Learn quickly that you don't care what a buck looks like, well he has to have two teats, good feet and legs and excellent breed character, but he is really nothing more than a walking semen tank, he is going to spit his mom out all over your herd, make sure she is worth the spit. Vicki

  3. Stacy Adams

    Stacy Adams Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2003
    I LOVE that!! I had to copy it and put it in my "goat" book :cool: