Frustrated: Kicking while milking

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Simpler1773, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I know you guys are probably tired of answering my endless questions, frankly I'm tired of asking them :Bawling: Thanks for your patience.

    So, this goat I bought on Monday milked just fine while I was there buying her, she did just fine Tues and then Wed morn. Last night when I milked her I had to dump the milk because she stepped in the bucket. This morning she was, not exactly kicking, but lifting her leg and setting it back down quickly and kind of dancing around the stanchion :grump:

    I watched her after I put her back in the pen and she did seem like she would bite at her back leg every now an again like she was itching a bite or something. I looked her over and didn't see anything.

    Now I'm wondering ... is she getting sassy that she's gonna do this everytime I milk her, or does she have a real complaint back there and I need to do something about it?

    :help:
    Ricki
     
  2. topside1

    topside1 Retired Coastie Supporter

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    How about flys tickling her legs during your milking period? My gang can't stand them. If I was milking in an open air setting I would never have milk in the fridge. Luckily I milk in a enclosed milk room with only a few flies from time to time...John
     

  3. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that was the reason last night ~ so I didn't think much of it. But this morning I milked while it was still cool out, there were no flies around, and she was worse. :shrug:

    Ricki
     
  4. topside1

    topside1 Retired Coastie Supporter

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    I guess were down to deciding who is the boss??? good luck...John
     
  5. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    And if that's the case, how do I correctly let her know? :grump:

    Thanks
    Ricki
     
  6. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It wouldn't hurt to tether her legs a few times.
    mary
     
  7. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Personally I wouldnt do that....when I got my first milker she would dance from leg to leg...the more frustrated I got the more she did it...someone suggested tieing her leg back. :grump: I did that and had goat and rope and milk and buckets bloody everywhere.
    So I made sure she had lots of yummy things to eat in her bucket on the stand..apples cut up, carrots, broccoli leaves etc....and ignored her.... :hobbyhors .....she does not dance around now. She is my herd QUEEN....you cannot tell the queen anything without repocussions. If you only have 2 milkers then she may be the herd queen and so rather than get into a big battle with her maybe try ignoring what she does and carry on regardless..like I had to...it worked.
    I think the reason Penny danced so much when I got her was that the lady had limited funds and was not able to feed them properly and enough and she would get very uptight on the stand like it was all she was going to get...know what I mean....so once she knew there was plenty of food she settled down.
    Remember they are creatures of habit so her previous habits may take a while to go and new habits form with you....so her new habit you want to form is...calmness on the milkstand. :)
     
  8. bbbuddy

    bbbuddy Well-Known Member

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    My new milk goat "Sugar" started doing that after a few days. She was eating faster than I was milking, and would start the "kicking" when done with her feed.

    Rather than let her decide when we are done, I just keep my hand on her belly until she quits dancing around, and go back to milking. Each day she does it less, as she is not rewarded nor does it stop me. I am milking one handed right into a quart jar for now, so that makes it really easy. One hand is free to move with her if she "dances and kicks up" and the other hand holds the milk jar out of the way.
    Haven't lost a drop of milk this way.
     
  9. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the suggestions. I'll try giving her the apple, carrots, etc in her food dish. She does get worse when her food runs out and then she wants more, but I don't want to give her more and then have her get sick (she got too much the day I got her when she was loose in their barn and had dog poops for 2 days!). So giving her some other items along with the grain may work. And then it sounds like just sticking with it and not letting her win.

    Oy vey ~ this may be more than I bargained for...lol

    Thanks
    Ricki
     
  10. GoldenWood Farm

    GoldenWood Farm Legally blonde! Supporter

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    Ok I am bad here....when my does start doing any of that crud to me and I KNOW there is nothing wrong with them and they know better I give them a firm smack on the rump and a stern no to go with it. They learn pretty quick that I won't let that stuff slide.

    I have a few does who just once and a while will pull a stunt like this for no good reason so they get a smack on the rump. Also my does learn that if they are done with their grain they need to stand and wait until I am done. If they do good they get a treat.

    Have you checked her udder area? I had one doe who started doing this out of the blue and have never ever done this before so I checked her out and I figured out her udder was so dry that it was cracking when I milked (Can you say OUCH!) so I treated her udder with bagbalm and she didn't kick anymore.

    You could try tethering her legs. I would tether BOTH back legs and not just one as it is much harder that way. I have one doe who kicks and kicks unless you are really gentle with her. She just has a sensitive udder and is like that from first time being freshened and milked to now (3rd freshener).

    It sounds to me like she is testing you. My herd queen does this once and a while just to see what I do. I will give her a smack on the rump and tell her to quite or she gets a bite on the side (well more like a pinch to her but it hurts..) if my hands are full milking :hobbyhors . As she did so well at first I would say she is testing you to see how much she really can get away with. This happened to me when my mom would help milk sometimes. I would come out to milk and my girls would be lifting their leg or dancing around which before they NEVER did. Found out my mom let them get away with it when she milked.

    Sorry for such a long post..I probably will get reproved for my methods...but for me its the only way to get through to my stubborn girls (sometimes a stern no will do it also though which I prefer to do). There is no excuse for a doe to pull that even if she runs out of grain IMHO :nono: . She can wait a minute and stand there. Some does who do finish their grain real quick though (like a hoover vaccum) I know some people will put large rocks in their feed pan to slow them down.

    Ok I am done now :eek: .

    MotherClucker
     
  11. silvergirl

    silvergirl Well-Known Member

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    My Sadie is a kicker, so I was interested to see what everyone had to say.

    I have resorted to tieing her leg back, and that works fine for us. She has tons of yummy stuff in her bucket, but she goes through treats like carrots and apples so fast, I just make sure she has lots of corn and alfalfa pellets - those are her favorite kinds of feed. She still struggles now and then, and tries to kick, but I speak very sternly to her, and she settles down again, now. I think it was a power struggle for awhile with her, but I told her very clearly, I am older, at least somewhat smarter, far more stubborn and I have thumbs! So she is done with milking when I am done with milking, and no amount of struggles and stubbornness is going to change that... BTW, I did my best to be sure there there were no health issues or comfort issues when the kicking started...

    I used to place a hand sort of between her hip and her tummy to hold her leg, but that meant I had to milk her out with one hand, because as soon as I took my hand away to continue milking, she would kick again... besides, it took too long! so that nonsense didn't last...

    She's the light of my life and I love her dearly, but she is part of my family because she has a role to play and I think she is happier for knowing her boundaries and being held to them...
    Silvergirl
     
  12. Idahoe

    Idahoe Menagerie More~on

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    My herd queen was awful to milk for the first two weeks. She fought me, stepped in the bucket, pooped and peed while I was milking while staring me in the eye. Looking back, I don't know how I put up with it being new to goats and milking, but somehow I kept up the routine until she just stopped being a brat. She was milked on with a machine too, which added to her discomfort having her teats handled so much.

    I tied one leg back but she was so fiesty I still had to milk with one hand on the bucket and one hand on whichever teat. I just kept on milking her even when the stream went all over as she kicked. She even turned her head around and bit me on the shoulder. I smacked her on the behind, she looked shocked, and so far she hasn't done this again.

    I think what I hear people saying is to persist and she'll give up her cantankerous behavior. It makes sense that the relief of an empty udder and the yummy food in the bowl will win out in the end.

    I did end up buying a "humane" hobble set from Hoegger's which isn't as likely to hurt the legs as tying up would. I'd still tie her leg up if that's what it takes.
     
  13. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

    It also makes me feel better to know I'm not alone, that's worth alot to me right now. My husband and my older daughter were both out of town and I was home with the 19 month old and the cantankerous goat :Bawling:

    Thanks again!
    Ricki
     
  14. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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    I totally agree with Mother Clucker. Just like popping that hand on a 2 year old that is going to test you and test you and test you until you put your foot down. Sometimes just a firm swat on the rump and a "NO" a couple of times will cure that. She may be just trying to see what she can get away with..with her new goat mom.

    You might also check to see if she has any long hairs that are getting pulled or make sure that you are not pinching her teat. Maybe it just feels different to her than her other goat mom.
     
  15. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    She probably just needs to get used to you and your routine. Be firm with her. I, too, swat goats on the rump when they get ornery. They get the message. If my goats eat their grain too fast, I put alfalfa pellets in their feeder.
     
  16. Hip_Shot_Hanna

    Hip_Shot_Hanna Well-Known Member

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    One other thing worth mentioning.. you can feel if you grab the udder mass at the top of the teat. DON'T DO THAT. It can injure the udder. You can feel it slip a bit at the top, and I've often had to regrip because of that. I mean, it would sure HURT to have someone grab like that. Just a thought.
     
  17. chamoisee

    chamoisee Well-Known Member

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    How can you know for certain that there's nothing wrong with her? That's about like one of my ex's claiming that sex didn't hurt when I said it did, he said it was my imagination, turned out it was a yeast infection, OW. :grump:

    Same thing with goats kicking. They almost always have a good reason.

    Your hands are too small or too big, or you're squeezing too hard, or pulling downwards, or pinching udder tissue along with the teat, or she's coming down with mastitis, or has a bee sting or a cut on her teat, or there are flies all around, or you're angry or anxious or upset and upsettign her too, or you're in a hurry, or she's afraid of you because you smacked her the last time she got milked when she kicked because you pinched her (makes for a vicious cycle), etc. I don't think hitting them helps, or tying their legs back, either. That just makes it so you HAVE to tie their legs back before you can milk them, every time. Bleh....

    Be patient and persisitent, if she starts to kick, assess your milking technique and try to alter it to be gentler or to hold the teat differently and see if that helps.

    DO NOT EVER: give her extra grain after she starts kicking (the goaty mind then concludes that once they run out of grain, they should start kicking and they'll get more!!!) or give up (then they start kicking as soon as they're bored so you'll stop and they can rejoin their friends.

    That's another thing: does she have a kid or herd buddies that she's anxious to join? They also like to be milked in order, most dominant doe first, leats dominant last, the same order every time, and they will fret if the order get sdisrupted at all.
     
  18. Simpler1773

    Simpler1773 Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm pretty sure I'm not grabbing any of the udder when I milk. But thanks for the suggestion.

    I gave her a swat tonight when she started dancing immediately when she got on the stand (and I had extra treats in her dish) and told her NO. She then just did a coupe of quick leg lifts so I swatted her again on the butt and said NO. Then proceeded with the milking and for the most part she was really good! She needed a reminder about half way through ~ but I think we reached an understanding. Hopefully she remembers tomorrow. I milked 2 quarts tonight though, so that was good!

    Thanks again to everyone, I love this forum!
    Ricki
     
  19. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My Milly started kicking this year, and it wasn't because I did anything different or anything was wrong with her. It was her first year to raise her own kids. She learned that, hey, with a little kick, dinner time was over. She thought that should work on the stand, too. :grump: She and I know each other pretty well, and, trust me, it was a personality issue.
    mary
     
  20. GoldenWood Farm

    GoldenWood Farm Legally blonde! Supporter

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    Ricki thats great! I am so glad to hear she did better. They do test you sometimes. My friends does when I sometimes help her will do that also and I have to let them know I will NOT put up with that PERIOD.

    My gals know that if they even think about tipping my bucket over they are in BIG trouble. If they tip the bucket over their grain gets tooken away and they have to stand nice and still while I finish milking them out :hobbyhors . They smarten up REAL quick like :hobbyhors .

    I bet she was just testing you to see how far she could go with it. I am sure you will have to remind her a few more times :nono: :hobbyhors . But she will learn that she can't get away with it. I remember my first doe (now is my moms doe) I was so frustrated I could cry...(I did start a tiny bit) as she kicked no matter what I did. Even now she still does and it takes FOREVER to milk her out but she is a heavy milker so she got given to my mom. She was just one of those does who no matter what you did she would kick or lift her leg.

    Glad your gal is better!

    MotherClucker