[tallpines]

Can I be a PEST and ask one more question?

It seems to me that you alluded to a TRUE 3rd leaf and/or a twin lobe.
In studying my 3 leaved Long Tom, I'm wondering if I have the REAL 'tri'.

On my Long Tom, there is one larger leaf and the other is equally divided into 2 smaller leaves.
Is a "tri" 3 equal sized leaves?

 

[Guest]

You won't have to isolate that one for seed saving but you might watch it to see if it grows faster and produces more fruit. You do not have a true tricot. You have a twin instead even though there are only 3 cotyledons. That's caused by a twin embryo and more common than one hears. Often there will be two stems fused together and 4 leaves. The reason why it is not reported much is that some such mutations are fatal. The seedling dies before the grower notices it. I've seen that once and the seedling never got out of the cotyledon stage before it suddenly died. The true tricot has 3 identical leaves and it's first growth after that will be 3 true leaves. Last year, I regretted having a digital camera as there also was a Riesentraube tricot. The cotyledons grew to well over an inch and then 3 identical leaves filled in between. Viewed from above, it was like a perfect green snowflake!

Martin

 

[sweetbabyjane]

Hi Martin,
We will be eating the last of the beets tonight with supper. Just wanted you to know that they were delicious and very much appreciated!

In case anyone wants a good recipe for them, here's one I got off the web:

about 5 good sized (2-3 inch) beets
1 packed Tablespoon brown sugar (having a sweet tooth I used two).
3/4 cup orange juice
1/4 cup white vinegar
1/2 teaspoon salt
little pepper (I didn't use any)
1 Tablespoon corn starch

Leave root and about two inches of stem on beets. Steam beets until you can poke a fork into them, then rub the skin off under cold water. Slice beets about 1/4 inch thick.

Mix OJ, vinegar, salt, pepper, brown sugar, and cornstarch together and bring to a boil, stirring frequently. After the sauce thickens, add the sliced beets and cook until tender, around 30 minutes.

Yum,
SBJ

 

[evilbunny]

I believe I have one plant coming with the tricot. This is in the Roma and the beginning leaves are three leaves, two of them the same size and one only slightly smaller. There arent any true leaves on it as yet and it is only about 1" high so far. It isnt any slower growing or starting than the others.

Is this what I am looking for? I am doing some research tonight to see but would like your opinion.

The seeds are great. Next year I will send you a little soil for you to add to your ground...giggle my version of a play on your wish for more land to grow on....

The beets were planted last week. The lettuce didnt get planted in the first lettuce planting so it will wait another week till I start harvesting some. The morning glory will be planted in a week when I get my flower bed started.

So much fun and its even legal and good for me..WOW

 

[Paquebot]

Evilbunny, sounds like you've got one. Sometimes the third leaf is not exactly the same size as the other two. The prettiest ones are when all three are identical. Then three identical true leaves develop and they are like a living green snowflake.

It's so funny. A year ago, all of the Garden Web tomato experts thought that I was nuts to pursue it or pulling their legs. This year, we are getting reports of tricots in many varieties. One person finally believed when he got one. Before he could get over his surprise, he found a second one in another variety! Now at least 3 of us can report seeing them in two varieties at the same time.

There is one thing that all agree on. The tricots grow a lot faster than their "normal" siblings. That was exactly what I kept saying for 5 years. Watch the one you have and see if it also will grow faster.

You won't be able to find much to research. The biggest study is going on right now and the scientists and growing fields are the people who got my seed as well as everyone else who has joined the faculty by finding more tricots in other varieties. In other words, you are one of them!

I had no plans on planting any out this year as there are many other things to accomplish in the gardening field. But what happens? There are some volunteer tomato seedlings coming up in a flower planter. Yes, one of them is a tricot. I'll have to grow the darned thing out to find which variety it is. Just like Pandora's Box, can't be stopped!

Martin

 

[Miz Mary]

so far , no tri' s.......but more seedlings are popping up now, so we'll see. Beets are slowly growing........

Thanks Martin, not just for the free seeds, but for the learning you teach !!

 

[Guest]

You won't have to isolate that one for seed saving but you might watch it to see if it grows faster and produces more fruit. You do not have a true tricot. You have a twin instead even though there are only 3 cotyledons. That's caused by a twin embryo and more common than one hears. Often there will be two stems fused together and 4 leaves. The reason why it is not reported much is that some such mutations are fatal. The seedling dies before the grower notices it. I've seen that once and the seedling never got out of the cotyledon stage before it suddenly died. The true tricot has 3 identical leaves and it's first growth after that will be 3 true leaves. Last year, I regretted having a digital camera as there also was a Riesentraube tricot. The cotyledons grew to well over an inch and then 3 identical leaves filled in between. Viewed from above, it was like a perfect green snowflake!

Martin

I have what I believe to be a true tricotyledon tomato. It started with 3 equal-sized seed leaves and is now producing its first true leaves - of which there are three! The batch of seeds I got produced several of these tricots. I'll be interested to see what/if any fruit it produces.

I found this site through a search for "tricotyledons". It looks like it might be interesting - I shall look around after it post this.

Margaret

 

[Miz Mary]

All of my tomato seeds sre up , and NOT ONE tri !!!
Bummer !!! Oh well, I can still save seed from the WI 55 !!
MY beets came up VERY sparsely, so I am babying them.
Actually just praying over them as I like my beet greens !!
This is such a learning expirience that I am grateful for !!
I bought a tomato plant at the store - made me mad because it did not say if it was deteminate or indeterminate !!!! So, I searched it out - determinate !!
Thanks Paquebot for the valuble learnin' !!!

 

[Paquebot]

Miz Mary, you may save seeds from both tomato varieties, not just the Wisconsin 55. The tricot gene is in the entire line of the Paquebot Roma. Next year, you may have a dozen tricots! There's just no way to predict what will happen in each generation.

Martin

 

[CMATE]

Hi Paquabot,
I want to update you that my Roma's & Wisconsin 55's have formed some beautiful looking tomato's, they are still all green & I'm so impatient to see them ripen!! Can hardly wait to try them!!

Now, I must say, the Paqabot Plant looks kinda wierd, almost like a mutant!! But it does have the most perfectly shaped tomato's. The leaves seem to curl up, like its suffering.....though all my other Tomato's look healthy & 'upright' & they are watered every other day with a timed sprinkler system. Is this right? Or do they need extra water? Though they look that way, the fruit's are growing well.

 

[Guest]

CMate, the Paquebot Roma does naturally have small leaves. But that doesn't mean that you haven't got an oddball. In the years that I grew and stabilized it, I would now and then get one which refused to grow laterals. Instead of forming a bush with half a dozen main stems, the darned thing would grow like a green twig! No seed ever saved from them.

Also, they are a determinate. Once they begin to set fruit, the leaves are no longer supported by the root system. Every bit of energy goes to ripening the fruit instead. Shortly after that, the entire plant simply gives up and dies.

Martin

 

[kitty32_z8]

Martin,
I am having the same deformed leaves on my Wisc. 55's as CMate. I seem to have great fruit setting. The leaves however are not straight and bend right and left, although seem healthy other than that genetic defect. It is not caused from fruit setting being they have been this way since they were about a 1 1/2' tall. Way before fruiting.
They are monsterous sized plants ! I have never had plants so heathly. I have a literal jungle. I decided to not prune this year and they have taken over! I dont know yet if any Romas survived being I mixed my seedlings up. No roma fruit that I can tell through the jungle.
Note to self: make sturdier LARGER cages and give mass growing room!

Kathy

 

[evilbunny]

Thought I'd report in as well.

My tri leaf plant got sat on by my puppies. It is still alive but not very healthy. I swear they go out there every night and camp on it. It has grown to about 2 ft but looks so wimpy next to all my other tomatoes. LOL

I planted some of both varieties. The only one I know is which is the tri leafed one. So I can say with confidence...I have nice looking tomatoes, all my plants have oodles of tomatoes on them. Except the yellow beefsteak type one I got from the nursery here. I am really wondering about that thing. It set two tomatoes which split while still green from too much rain. Then nothing. I get blooms but no tomatoes.

All in all I should have tomatoes coming out my ears in a few weeks.



I saved the extra seeds you sent for next year. I can hardly wait to get them in the ground at a normal time. This year we had a super late frost and I managed to cover the tomatoes, but not the peppers. :waa:

 

[Paquebot]

Some of you certainly can find new ways to kill my children! A puppy this time? It happens!

And I'm going to "murder" CMate for bringing this thread back to the front page. I'm already getting requests and haven't even got ripe fruit yet! I'll have to see if Tallpines can't hide the darned thing somewhere and we can start over!!

Kathy, you are probably seeing something completely different with the WI55 leaves. There are some varieties which almost look like they want to climb. After the plants get so big, the leaf bracts grow into arcs as if they want to hook onto something for support. Two of mine are doing that and they are trying to grow straight up. They are getting help from a grapevine and pea fence. Two in front of them are not showing any curved leaf bracts but they are sprawling all over the place instead. All reports are that the WI55 is growing to type all over the country. Variations are being mentioned in the Roma but I knew that would possibly happen. As long as they are all setting fruit, you're in business.

Martin

 

[southerngurl]

I have gotten a few tomatoes myself. They are a fine tasting variety. I've had some stink bug and (if I remember the name right) blister beetle problems, but some pyrethrin has taken care of them.

Will you be accepting seed donations to send out to others the next go round?

 

[tallpines]

Paquebot2-------
This thread has gained popularity and now you want it to go into hiding?
Tsk--Tsk!
Being a "hero" can be a curse sometimes---can't it !?!

 

[Guest]

The problem, Madam Tallpines, is that it indeed is a good thread but monstrously long. Even if someone takes the time to wade through the first 2 pages, there are still 3 to go. As a result of its restoration to the first page on this forum, I received 3 requests for seeds yesterday! OK, so a waiting line has begun. If something happens between now and when the next offer comes along, and I lose those 3 addresses, those gardeners may not end up getting anything. Then I go from being a hero to a cad. Not a good thing for my reputation!

There was one thing which came to light yesterday due to this thread's revival. In the deepest part of Florida, the time to start tomatoes would be November-December. My Garden Web tomato offer begins in the fall here and thus those Florida gardeners receive their seed at the proper time. I may include HT in that offer but strictly for the extreme southern growers. Since the cost of postage is borne 100% by me, with special thanks to the Social Security Administration, I don't think that it would be fair if I were asked to be so generous twice in the same season. I have no way of knowing what the Jung's trial packet for 2005 will be until January. Availability to me may not be until mid-February. Were they something really desired by someone whom I had already included in the GW tomato seed offer, that would put everyone between a rock and a hard spot. It would be a free offer, with no strings attached, but costing me twice as much. I'd be in a tight spot if someone also asked for the second offer since I'd have already sent seeds to that person. Gardeners would be in a bind since they may really want something in the second offer but won't ask out of politeness and fairness. And if I asked for postage to cover the second request, then it isn't free!

Anyway, I'm not going to worry about crossing that river until I get there. No bridge there yet but it's under construction!

Martin

 

[CMATE]

Some of you certainly can find new ways to kill my children! A puppy this time? It happens!

And I'm going to "murder" CMate for bringing this thread back to the front page. I'm already getting requests and haven't even got ripe fruit yet! I'll have to see if Tallpines can't hide the darned thing somewhere and we can start over!!

Martin

Sorry about that!!

Also, they are a determinate. Once they begin to set fruit, the leaves are no longer supported by the root system. Every bit of energy goes to ripening the fruit instead. Shortly after that, the entire plant simply gives up and dies.

Thanks for the above explanation, that seems to be the case...but Ooooh they do have the most perfectly shaped tomato's! :worship:

 

[tallpines]

Per Paquebot's suggestion, I' going to LOCK this thread.
Essentially it was for the SPRING 2004 season and to avoid confusion with succeeding growing seasons it will be best to Lock it.

Its been an informative thread-------thanks to all who contributed.