Ford starter

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by HermitJohn, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,328
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Ok, progressing right along with putting the six in my old 4wd. ;) Anyway after looking and deciding it would be smart to put new motor mounts for the six, find Ford mounts are crazy priced, so scraped the rubber off the old Ford mounts and drilled holes in this plate to use Dodge slant six mounts. Dodge mounts are pretty close to universal (rubber sandwitch with bolts coming out each side) if you have the plates or can weld them up. They are also only $10 each.

    Now down to wanting to weld up exhaust before it turns cold tomorrow again. Then thought good idea to bolt on starter so I can work around it. Then realize I just have the starter off the 460. Starter didnt come with the six. Does anybody know if it will work with the six flywheel without chewing up the teeth? I looked online auto parts and they give different number for six starter and the 460 starter.
     
  2. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,264
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2003
    Location:
    Whiskey Flats(Ft. Worth) , Tx
    .............John , I can pose this question if you would like , on the Ford, FTE website . I think you are dropping a 4.9 , 6 into your truck if I remember correctly . I'll go ahead and post the question and check on it in the AM , fordy :)
     

  3. ed/IL

    ed/IL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    208
    Joined:
    May 11, 2002
    You could bring it into auto parts store and compair it to the other starter.
     
  4. BobBoyce

    BobBoyce Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    313
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2004
    Location:
    SE TN/SW NC
    If I remember correctly, there are 2 differences between the starters for the straight 6 and the V8. The V8 starter has higher torque, and I think the depth the gear travels to engage the flywheel is different. I can't remember which one engages deeper however, the I6 or the V8.

    It was back in the 70's that I discovered this when I tried using a junkyard obtained ford starter to replace a bad starter on a ford engine in a dune buggy I had built.

    So many years ago, can't remember all the details.

    Bob
     
  5. Hurricane Kurt

    Hurricane Kurt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I'm not %100 but I think it will werk, here is my thinking. I know from experience that the two 300/6 engines I have had in the past came with 164 tooth flywheels, same as the 460 (385 series engine). I also know that both of these engines were options in the same year and model trucks using the same transmissions. Now if they had the same flywheel and the same trans. I would ASSume they'd have the same bellhousing therefore the starter should fit both.

    OK that being said.... Ford has ALOT of starters. One example is that in my '70 F100 I have a 351W (not original) and the 351W has 2 different part numbers, both bolt up and both will work but one does not line up as well with the flywheel and it greatly reduces its life, now dont get me wrong it seems to werk perfectly for awhile but after time it gets louder and louder then dies.

    I agree with Ed, if you have a good parts store nearby that you could take the 460 starter to and compare it with the 6cyl starter closely, I'd take a tape measure, and have the parts person cross reference it just to make sure.

    Let us know if it werks or not I'd like to know.

    Kurt
     
  6. wy_white_wolf

    wy_white_wolf Just howling at the moon

    Messages:
    6,108
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Location:
    Wyoming
    back in the late 70's I got a 390 starter and a 6 cyl. starter mixed up. Now I don't remember what happened to which. They both started ok and seemed to work fine at first but, One of them chewed up the drive and flywheel from not being able to fully engage. And the other one eventually burned the starter up fronm not disengaging soon enough after starting.
     
  7. BobBoyce

    BobBoyce Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    313
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2004
    Location:
    SE TN/SW NC
    That's what I was referring to about the gear engage depth on the starter. Even if the flywheel is the same, there is a little difference between the I6 and the V8 in how far the flywheel is from the starter mounting face. The wrong starter on either engine would either not engage the flywheel fully and wear out the starter and flywheel gear teeth, or engage too far, bottoming out against the flywheel and take longer to disengage.

    Bob
     
  8. Hurricane Kurt

    Hurricane Kurt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I'm following you guys and understand about chewing up the starter gear from mis-alignment but I've killed 'em and after taking them out the starter gear doesn't look that bad at all. I bought a lifetime warrantied one from Advance about 4 years ago and I bet I've been through 6 or 7 of them since, I usually blame it on the chinaman that rebuilt it when I'm cursing and crawling on the ground changing one out in some mudhole.

    I'm not sure of the number of teeth on the 390 but thats an 'FE' engine, different than the 460 thats in the '385' engine family but I'm pretty sure the flywheels are different, just like everything else on a Ford :) I think when it comes to the 385 series engines and the 240/300 6 cyls there are 2 starters with the difference being in the thickness of the starter mounting ears if you follow me. One being thicker than the other. So one should work on both applications if its shimmed and the other will only fit properly on its specific application.

    Of course if one is from auto trans and one from a manual trans none of this matters anyway.... :)

    Kurt
     
  9. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,328
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Hmm....guess I go looking. Coldest weather of season but dry so havent been real motivated yesterday or today.

    There is one noticeable difference without going to parts store. The six bellhousing has two threaded holes for starter. The 460 starter has one ear threaded and one ear smooth hole so if I wanted to use the 460 starter, I'd have to drill out the threaded ear on it. Person wants me to look at their computer in Fayetteville today so I'll stop at parts store. Already looked it up on net and rebuilt starter for 6 is $34 plus government gratuity and $16 core charge. Except for core charge, its got so rebuilt isnt much higher than junkyard and some junkyards want a core now.

    This does remind me of an old '72 Bronco I bought once. Apparently it originally had a 289/302 in it. But previous owner wanted that for some car and put a 200 six in it (old Broncos either had the standard 170/200 or the optional 289/302 from the factory). Well I thought it weird when I went to look at it that there wasnt any starter, not even a bad one, but its just an old beater and ring gear looked good on flywheel and when we pull started it ran nice. Get it home and go looking for a starter. Manuals all show a three bolt starter and this bellhousing has two bolt. Back then knew this old junk yard guy. Went there and he was busy but pointed to building with huge number of starters. Swear I looked at every Ford starter he had and no two hole Ford starter matched that mystery bellhousing. Finally bought a three hole starter from him and fabricated an 1/8 inch thick adapter plate. It worked. Thing always started and never chewed up the ring gear on flywheel. I always did wonder where that fellow found that bellhousing. I mean even the auto parts stores listed the three hole starter as proper one for six cylinder Bronco and cars with that engine also.
     
  10. HermitJohn

    HermitJohn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,328
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Ok, apparently the 460 starter can be used with proper shims. Not sure that it is worth the effort though. Have to think about it some. One of those cases where its probably just easier to pay the man the "two bucks" and be done with it.