Firends, farmers, and those that are in training...

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Wingdo, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. Wingdo

    Wingdo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many times folks feel it is important to flex that "I know everything about goat farming" muscle, and they might run a little long for a short pass! This can cause hard feelings, and even intimidation, to those that are only looking for friendship, a little knowledge, and/or someone to talk with regarding a particular/mutual subject.

    Eventually, all professionals get tired of answering the same questions day after day after day, and suddenly one day they speak to the "newer/novice" like they would a dog that insists on peeing on the oriental rug in the dining room! It's not because that person is just mean or looking for a fight! It's because they feel that this question/answer had been addressed so many times, it need not be repeated. However, this "mean old" person needs to realize, this question is not always addressed/directed to them!

    Perhaps there might be a time when an emergency presents itself, and the poster is so excited about the situation they haven't, or they may feel there isn't, time to sort through old posts regarding the repeated question/answer.

    A wise teacher instructs, and then sits in the background listening as he/she allows those that were instructed before to field the repeated answer. If the answer falls short, they will fill in any blanks that may have been omitted. This is how we grow and become knowledgeable of a given "hobby/business/subject" without pulling out hair or insulting one another.

    To "know" a given answer is a wonderful thing, but to share this knowledge is the most important gift a person can give to those that wish they did! However, the world will not explode if you let those with some of your teachings, and teachings of others, field answers from the novice. Not only that, but your students will sometimes surprise the living snot out of you and have even more information than was ever offered in the beginning, and if everyone isn't careful, this knowledge also may become common, thus teaching the teacher!

    When dealing with friends/folks on "the net" please remember that some of these are young minds that are looking to and hoping for a future with animals, be it goats, the family kitten, or that dog that really, really wants to pee on the oriental rug in the dining room!

    Oh, and one last thing... An appology is a wonderful thing, but only if it's sincere... sincerity creates friends and is a much better teacher to all involved!

    Just an observation that may, or may not, save on some hard feelings among my friends here on "The Goat Board" on down the road. I've been a member here for years, and have seen some pretty horrid acts in that time. The best thing we can do as a group of folks interested in a world of goats is be patient and actually listen to everyone, and make comment when it's actually needed.

    Wing
     
  2. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    And then there's always the person who feels they need to correct everyone's behavior.

    My take? You ask for free advice, you get what you pay for.

    It's frustrating to answer the same questions over and over. It's also frustrating to watch a bunch of backyard vets try to diagnose an animal from the following description: "help, my animal is down!"

    Our reactions to how strangers view us or respond to us on the internet are our own responsibility. Frankly, some people screw up and animals suffer. Sometimes people need to know that, learn from it, and move on.

    Sometime people need to grow a little thicker skin. Sometimes, they just need to admit that they DID make mistakes, and then try not to make them again. This constant pandering to everyone's emotions is ridiculous.

    I'm not going to apologize for considering how an innocent animal is being treated. Don't get a bunch of animals you don't know anything about, you're not prepared to care for, and you're not financially able to support. Period.
     

  3. Wingdo

    Wingdo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are repeating yourself Doc.

    Thanks for your input my friend.
    Wing
     
  4. trob1

    trob1 Well-Known Member

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    DocM why did you assume this post was directed at you?

    It's frustrating to answer the same questions over and over.

    Then do not answer! Very simple! I personally havent seen any post saying DocM help my animal is dying! Maybe I missed it.
     
  5. trob1

    trob1 Well-Known Member

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    Wingdo all I can say is great post. I just hope all will read it and really hear what it says.
    Thanks
     
  6. dap

    dap lilsparrow

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    Yes, I agree that it is a great post. No accusations, just good advice for ALL of us to ponder.
     
  7. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    Gee Wing..I understand what you are trying to do..but you say that an apology is only good if it is sincere. Now how am I supposed to "convince" someone of its sincerity?

    I apologized..and I meant it..I was not apologizing for trying to urge someone to not feed grain to a bloated kid..I was apoligizing for the hurt feelings or offense that may have come from it.

    I hope you have read the entire incident..every word of every person before you judge this whole deal.
     
  8. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    One thing to remember, and I've done it myself, is when responding to a post, take time to thoroughly read it, along with the entire thread. Often, emotions arise when comments are made in error due to misunderstanding a situation. How many of us have had to apologize and say "sorry, I didn't read the post right or I didn't understand the total picture."
    Another practice that is helpful is when giving advice, mention if it is something you have specifically dealt with that worked or didn't work, as oppsed to simply something you read or discovered secondhand.
    I know I take more seriously a response from someone who's been through the experience or who can point to good research.
    Finally, peoples' feeling do get hurt and there is a wide range of high and low tolerance to any perceived criticism. While we all need to respect one another, by the same token, I hope we all realize when a management or treatment practice comes into question, we will consider "constructive criticism" as only in our best interest.
     
  9. T.Miller

    T.Miller Well-Known Member

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    I have been lurking here for a while reading post and trying to learn as much as I can about goats.
    This is my first post. Out of fear of being criticized I have been afraid to ask any questions.
    I got my first goats in the spring of this year, and I have to admit that when I got them I knew nothing about goats. I have been reading all that I can find about goats and buying supplies to have on hand a little bit at a time.
    I live in Georgia and I currently have 5 pygmy does and 2 pygmy bucks. I hope that I am welcome here.
     
  10. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    Don't be afraid. And guess what? I bought my first goats and didn't know one end from another. Please don't feel intimidated. There are some great gals on here that raise pygmy goats..they will be of great help to you!
     
  11. Sweet Goats

    Sweet Goats Cashmere goats

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    Wing, I know where you are coming from. I really didn't see anyones names in your post. I don't know about everyone else. I know if I need help, I am not going to sift through the posts, I know someone will be able to help me a lot faster if I was to post. If you are in a hurry or frantic, you miss the one post you are looking for.
    I say keep posting and I will keep reading. Iknow if I am having trouble with one of my animals I can not think, but if it is not your animals it is easier to be relaxed.
     
  12. T.Miller

    T.Miller Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Sher.
     
  13. moosemaniac

    moosemaniac Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty new to goats, and I've learned a lot by asking questions of other goat folk.

    That notwithstanding, I keep my vet's phone number and emergency numbers easily accessible to the goat barn at all times.

    Ruth
     
  14. suzyhomemaker09

    suzyhomemaker09 Well-Known Member

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    Very good post.....
    It helps sometimes to step back and hold your tongue..or fingers in this case.
    Remember what mama used to say..if you can't say something nice........
     
  15. effboergoats

    effboergoats Well-Known Member

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    Great post Wingdo!!!
     
  16. jerzeygurl

    jerzeygurl woolgathering

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    im sure wing is refering to more than the wolf ladies thread... there have been several different threads have become "problematic".

    mamma always said.... if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all...

    the best way to learn is through experience. Im sure that all have you have met the person that has read it all in a book and there for thinks they know it all. :rolleyes: well you know and I know you can't learn it all in a book, it takes actual experience...how does one get experience....hands on...


    Often its not what is said , its how its said...one trick to remember is to not always be saying you this and you that, people take that as meaning them(imagine) trying making it 3rd person if possible or say I or we ...sounds much less acusatorial

    good manners don't cost nuthin, cept a little effort...

    I think some of us get used to the adversarial nature of other forums and bring it here to the place where its supposed to be safe to ask questions.

    I myself have made the suggestion in the past that the nature of some of these adversarial threads are keeping newbies from posting...and from learning from those with experience..

    :angel:
     
  17. Wingdo

    Wingdo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately, I did read the entire post from womb to tomb. Where I might not agree with the technique, and the hateful comments, I do agree there was a problem and it did hurt not only the goat, but the child as well.

    However, and I care not how anyone feels about it, the child gets top billing in my book, and always will... I'm going to "forget" something someday and I want my children to have the same respect for me that they were given when they were young and ignorant about a subject.

    That's about it for me folks... have a good day!
    Wing
     
  18. trob1

    trob1 Well-Known Member

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    Well said! :clap: :clap: I couldnt agree more!
     
  19. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree that people new to goats shouldn't be afraid to post here for fear of being put down. We should be there to help each other out. No one can know everything there is to know about goats when they first get into goats. I have been doing goats for over 6 years know and have gathered knowledge over that time. I am willing to share what I know, but do not consider myself the ultimate authority on them. All I can share is what works for me. I've gotten some good suggestions from these forums from the other breeders. I also know the importance of having fellow goat breeders in my area who can actually look at my animals if need be and also a good working relationship with a vet. I do suggest to the newcomers that you give as much information as you can when your goat is sick or injured so those of us wanting to help know what we're dealing with. I also know that with a really sick goat, time is of the essence, and there are times it's more prudent for me to call the vet rather than post here and wait for suggestions.
     
  20. mare

    mare Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i have not been in goats very long---but i will tell you i have learned alot from this forum. most just by reading every body elses posts and some by asking questions. i appreciate every bodies feed back. i guess i did not see anything so horrible with what was posted to allwolf---she did ask for peoples opinions and that is what she got. she chose to get bent out of shape by peoples opinions.. it is never easy to have some one tell you that you are doing the wrong thing, but how can you get mad when you ask and get what you ask for? yes some people can be a little gruffer than they should be but so what, if that is how they get their point across?? if you dont like what someone is telling you (whether you are old or young) then dont listen. i hope the people on this forum that have been into goats and are very knowlegable dont get to the point where they are afraid to help someone that is reaching out for help. thanks again to everyone.