[Donna1982]

My mom was talking to a lady yesterday and goats came up. She said she was buying some Boers from a very well known breeder here and her goats she has gotten from them has gotten fever bumps from the change in the weather. Mom nor me have ever heard of it and this is how she explain it.

A lump that shows up under the ear. Gets large and is pus filled. Once it pops it goes away. To us it sounds like CL. More then once she said the pumps are called fever bumps and they come from change in the weather. I have never in a million years heard this. Mom in her 15 years of owning goats has never heard of this.

Mom explain Cl (which the lady never heard of) and explain that is common practice in goats breed grandfather to granddaughter (I guess this breeder does a lot of line breeding). Mom said you can get really good goats or some really crappy goats that maybe back on the pasterns, or cow hocked, or worse. She ask what pasterns and cow hocked was so... I am assuming she does not know much and this in fact is CL. Which is scary that this person is buying goats with "fever bumps".

 

[Pony]

Yeah, that sounds kind of like CL to me, too. Wonder, though, what the nature of the pus is: Cheesy, or gooey? Smell? Those kind of things are diagnostic.

But if they're recurring, yeah, it seems like CL.

 

[Donna1982]

I wasnt their for the conversation it was my mom and my step father so I am not sure what all was said. Mom said it sounded like to her it was CL from how the lady explain it. She said their was no smell but I am not sure about how the pus looked though.

 

[Pony]

Well, no smell is an indicator.

Are we weirdos or what? Talking about cheesy, non-stinky exudate and who knows what else... LOL

 

[Donna1982]

I like to think we are the normal ones lol. We (mom, and me) talk about this stuff all the time. We will be in a restaurant reading the board or Facebook groups about ill goats. Or planning our breedings out and to whom. Or the best is talking about fecal samples. The looks we get is priceless. Last night my dear boyfriend lean over to me at Walmart and ask me if I washed my hands after putting one of the bucks away. I told him yes and he answers back well you still smell like buck p***. Yeah people moved away from us on that one.

 

[PlowGirl]

Definitely describes a classic cl abcess which would appear when infected goats experience stress situations. Linebreeding/ inbreeding doesn't cause cl.

 

[farmmaid]

SOME Boer breeders are not concerned with CL.......

 

[msscamp]

There are far too many breeders of any breed of goat that are not concerned with CL IMHO.

 

[Donna1982]

I hope my post didn't cone off as I was saying that line breeding causes it. I don't want any new comer to think that and I am well aware it doesn't. She like most people who have no breeding animals think of it as immoral or wrong. She said they are going to get a bunch of two headed babies from it.

What gets me is if this is cl and it is coming from this breeder they have to have had it in their herd. They have to had one break open if more then one goat she's bought has gotten it shortly after she's got it home. These people sell to kids A LOT. I understand stuff happens but come on start culling, get the vaccine or at least tell your buyers you have it.

 

[Caprice Acres]

They probably tell buyers that they have it if they ask. I wouldn't be surprised if the buyer you discussed never asked and assumed she knew what they were. The breeders may even have a vaccine or control program in place, it just decreases abscesses, not cures or prevents infections directly. You can eliminate the disease over several years, culling with time, and good management. Boer breeders often do not see it as problematic because at the end of the day, they don't have trouble managing it. A herd can be perfectly profitable and largely healthy and have CL under good management. Very rarely are animals condemned for CL abscesses in the commercial sales, so it doesn't affect that. It is zoonotic but pretty low risk as the number of infections has proven historically.

That being said, I don't want it here. The perception is hugely different between dairy and boer type herds. I think it has a lot to do with how attached we get to individuals and how closely we work with them with dairy goats, and the increased risk of zoonotic transmission dairy vs boer. Also, their product (milk vs meat) is hugely different and drinking raw milk from animals with abscesses may be riskier than eating cooked meat from an animal that had most/all of it's abscesses removed with skin.

 

[Donna1982]

I was so under the impression that the vaccine will keep others from getting CL. Is that true? I know there is like a 70 % success rate with the vaccine. I will admit I am clueless when it comes to vaccine. We have talked about it because our girls show. We do not have CL nor do I want it here.

 

[Caprice Acres]

My understanding is that the CL vaccine does NOT prevent new infections directly. It DOES prevent the vaccinated animals from getting abscesses (though keep in mind a vaccine is NEVER 100% effective and good management plays a bigger role!). This indirectly prevents spread of the disease pretty effectively - no (or at least fewer) abscesses means no (or fewer) new infections.

The abscesses that still appear will need to be managed properly. Removing abscessed animals from the main herd, lancing abscesses in a controlled way, and waiting until the abscesses are healing before retuning them to the herd is a good management strategy.

 

[msscamp]

I was so under the impression that the vaccine will keep others from getting CL. Is that true? I know there is like a 70 % success rate with the vaccine. I will admit I am clueless when it comes to vaccine. We have talked about it because our girls show. We do not have CL nor do I want it here.

No, CL vaccine will NOT prevent non-infected goats from developing it, nor is it recommended(by Colorado Serum - the manufacturer of both vaccines) that either Caseous DT or Case Bac on goats. Both of them were developed for sheep and they can cause some horrendous side effects when used on goats. Texas Labs has a new vaccine(CL Bacterin) on the market for CL that was developed for goats but, the last I knew, it was available on a trial basis only and there is not enough data yet to determine how effective it will be.

 

[msscamp]

It DOES prevent the vaccinated animals from getting abscesses (though keep in mind a vaccine is NEVER 100% effective and good management plays a bigger role!).

Only 85% of the time - that is the effectiveness rate of both Caseous DT and Case Bac.

 

[Caprice Acres]

I was actually talking about the GOAT SPECIFIC vaccine from Texas Vet Labs (You can find it in the Jeffers catalog), NOT the SHEEP vaccine made by CO Serum. It has gone through vaccine studies and if I recall had about an 80% efficacy at reducing abscesses or so. I think I gave them a call and posted about it here a while back.

 

[Caprice Acres]

Dug it up...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/464498-cl-vaccine-update-tvl-phone-call.html

 

[msscamp]

I was actually talking about the GOAT SPECIFIC vaccine from Texas Vet Labs (You can find it in the Jeffers catalog), NOT the SHEEP vaccine made by CO Serum. It has gone through vaccine studies and if I recall had about an 80% efficacy at reducing abscesses or so. I think I gave them a call and posted about it here a while back.

I have CL in my herd, so I've been following the CL Bacterin vaccine manufactured for goats by Texas Labs and, as of a month or so ago, there is not enough data to know how effective it is going to be. It is also only available on a trial basis, so it isn't even available in some states. Obviously both of those things could have changed, but I just did a quick search and couldn't find any new info on it.

 

[Donna1982]

Dug it up...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/goats/464498-cl-vaccine-update-tvl-phone-call.html

Thank you Dona I will read over it. We dont have CL here and I do not want it. We were talking about the vaccine since we do leave the farm with girls. I know its not 100 %. If we ever got it here the goat would be culled no doubt.

msscamp http://www.jefferspet.com/products/cl-bacterin-vaccine this is the vaccine we are talking about. They will not ship to every state including yours it looks like but it is available to some.

 

[Caprice Acres]

I think all you'd have to do is get ahold of your state vet to get the vaccine, last I knew... Haven't had to look into it but that what I'm recalling from like 2 years ago when I last looked into it, lol.