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I wonder how much is because people have more disease as compared to better diagnostics.
Fat, dumb and happy
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7,162 Posts
Not much. It's not all genetic either.
You'll see similar upward trend stats with obesity. What's causing the obesity epidemic is the same as what is causing all the chronic illnesses. People are over fed and under nourished.
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I got cows tongue sandwiches in a brown bag.
In the bright side, no one ever stole my lunch more than once.
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1,192 Posts
Might also be that we have made it desirable to be diagnosed with a chronic problem. Dr's, and big pharma are highly motivated to find "chronic ailments" and push drugs on people.
When they're young and the body is fit, they diagnose "anxiety" [ There isnt one millennial on planet earth who doesnt claim to be suffering from "anxiety" now ]....or "depression".
When we get a little older and our numbers arent in perfect ranges, they get you on blood pressure, statins, "fibro myalgia" and whatever else they can think of.
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11,633 Posts
in 1930 if you had one you just died
by 2020 we can keep you alive with all sorts of issues , Issues they didn't even know existed in 1930.
so by the very nature that population has nearly tripled in the time span 1930 to 2020
2 of my great grandparents were diabetics who died in their early to mid 40s now I know diabetics that are almost 90
also the definition of chronic disease may be different
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6,845 Posts
For the most part, yes.
Look up some stories in Appalachia in Eastern KY and WV.
Mountains and coal mines. Hard to earn a living.
Plus the hydrocododone (sp) pills were supplied through WV early on. That didn't help.
And yet...I think people are forgetting alternative factors besides the big one - nutrition.
What about environmental toxins? Heavy metal exposure? Living close to active mining operations? Radioactive rocks in the ground nearby (or as some like to put the term as "mineral rich")? Living near a factory that allows clouds of who-knows-what into the air? What's in the tap water we're drinking? (Could be a lot of contaminants there that mess up hormones). What about molds that live in homes? Some more benign all the way to black molds and worse? Molds that people don't realize are in their homes for a long time until they start showing up on the walls, floors, ceilings, etc.? If you want something to mess up your thyroid - molds is a great way to do it.
What about EMF's? Cell phone towers? Transformer boxes? Smart meters? WiFi? Blue Tooth? How are these affected our bodies and our hormones?
What about hygeine and other every day products? All the carcinogens that have been found in make ups, skin care products, deodorants, perfumes, over the counter and prescription medications, etc. So many hormone disruptors are available to us on store shelves and we touch these each day. BPA's in plastics are hard to avoid every waking moment. Teflon in cookware and some ovens. Chemicals in popcorn bags, food packaging, etc. are a worry, too.
What about jobs that require workers to sit all day long and stare at a screen? What about a lot of these factors causing increased insomnia issues? If you can't get good sleep, losing weight is insanely difficult. Jobs that are the backbone of our country like commercial truck driving often produce unhealthy workers because of the nature of sitting down for long periods of time.
Vitamin deficiencies can take hold easily if you aren't getting enough sunshine by working during daytime hours or sleeping all day to make the night shift. If vitamin D if off balance, it's possible for many more vitamins to be off because they all work together to create a healthy individual.
Not only that, but sunshine helps regulate our cortisol. It's healthy for people to get outside first thing in the morning and get sunshine. It kick starts the body's cortisol to do so giving us more energy. As we near the end of the day and it gets dark out, cortisol naturally depletes and queue in melatonin for sleep. Although, if one is starting at a screen late at night - the melatonin doesn't always get the message through as the body is still reacting to the blue light it sees thinking, "Oh, must still be day." We were not designed to live this way with screens, working late night ours in brightly lit environments, etc.
Not to mention, the heavier you get, the harder it is to get back in shape. How do you even get back in shape when you're obese and no longer feel like you have the energy for anything else in your day? When walking from your bedroom to the kitchen takes everything out of you and you only want to sleep? Those vicious cycles keep those who are overweight that way and then guiding them into obesity. Not to mention depression, anxiety, etc. adding on top of those issues making things spiral down worse.
While I do believe nutrition is one of the heaviest reasons that obesity rates have gone up, I don't believe it's the only reason or even close to being the only reason. There are so many factors.
It's easy to say, "Oh, people do it to themselves. If they're fat, that's gross. If they're fat - that's their fault." It's not always true! Can't make someone who has never had weight for their own health understand how hard it can be. Can't make a person who has always been a healthy weight understand the horror of everytime they walk into the doctor's office once a month they're 3-5 pounds heavier and no matter what diet changes are being made, the weight is not stopping.
It's honestly sad that the obesity rates are increasing so rapidly. Whether one generation was really to blame, I can't totally agree.
This is something that I think has snowballed over time and being on the same planet, we're all getting sucked in. As time went on, computers and internet were making their way into most homes around the country. More jobs became obsolete and were replaced by more tech savvy jobs. More jobs sitting all day rather than standing and moving.
I remember reading a study years ago. For the life of me, I wouldn't be able to find it now, but the study mentioned that smoking damages DNA. I don't think that's hard to believe if someone was a chain smoker. Although, it was said in the study that this damaged DNA would affect grandchildren and nothing could be done about that. After all, "More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette."
If this is indeed possible then what about other hormone disrupting stuff that was told was good for us Deet? Asbestos? And more?
Again, so many factors.
What about environmental toxins? Heavy metal exposure? Living close to active mining operations? Radioactive rocks in the ground nearby (or as some like to put the term as "mineral rich")? Living near a factory that allows clouds of who-knows-what into the air? What's in the tap water we're drinking? (Could be a lot of contaminants there that mess up hormones). What about molds that live in homes? Some more benign all the way to black molds and worse? Molds that people don't realize are in their homes for a long time until they start showing up on the walls, floors, ceilings, etc.? If you want something to mess up your thyroid - molds is a great way to do it.
What about EMF's? Cell phone towers? Transformer boxes? Smart meters? WiFi? Blue Tooth? How are these affected our bodies and our hormones?
What about hygeine and other every day products? All the carcinogens that have been found in make ups, skin care products, deodorants, perfumes, over the counter and prescription medications, etc. So many hormone disruptors are available to us on store shelves and we touch these each day. BPA's in plastics are hard to avoid every waking moment. Teflon in cookware and some ovens. Chemicals in popcorn bags, food packaging, etc. are a worry, too.
What about jobs that require workers to sit all day long and stare at a screen? What about a lot of these factors causing increased insomnia issues? If you can't get good sleep, losing weight is insanely difficult. Jobs that are the backbone of our country like commercial truck driving often produce unhealthy workers because of the nature of sitting down for long periods of time.
Vitamin deficiencies can take hold easily if you aren't getting enough sunshine by working during daytime hours or sleeping all day to make the night shift. If vitamin D if off balance, it's possible for many more vitamins to be off because they all work together to create a healthy individual.
Not only that, but sunshine helps regulate our cortisol. It's healthy for people to get outside first thing in the morning and get sunshine. It kick starts the body's cortisol to do so giving us more energy. As we near the end of the day and it gets dark out, cortisol naturally depletes and queue in melatonin for sleep. Although, if one is starting at a screen late at night - the melatonin doesn't always get the message through as the body is still reacting to the blue light it sees thinking, "Oh, must still be day." We were not designed to live this way with screens, working late night ours in brightly lit environments, etc.
Not to mention, the heavier you get, the harder it is to get back in shape. How do you even get back in shape when you're obese and no longer feel like you have the energy for anything else in your day? When walking from your bedroom to the kitchen takes everything out of you and you only want to sleep? Those vicious cycles keep those who are overweight that way and then guiding them into obesity. Not to mention depression, anxiety, etc. adding on top of those issues making things spiral down worse.
While I do believe nutrition is one of the heaviest reasons that obesity rates have gone up, I don't believe it's the only reason or even close to being the only reason. There are so many factors.
It's easy to say, "Oh, people do it to themselves. If they're fat, that's gross. If they're fat - that's their fault." It's not always true! Can't make someone who has never had weight for their own health understand how hard it can be. Can't make a person who has always been a healthy weight understand the horror of everytime they walk into the doctor's office once a month they're 3-5 pounds heavier and no matter what diet changes are being made, the weight is not stopping.
It's honestly sad that the obesity rates are increasing so rapidly. Whether one generation was really to blame, I can't totally agree.
This is something that I think has snowballed over time and being on the same planet, we're all getting sucked in. As time went on, computers and internet were making their way into most homes around the country. More jobs became obsolete and were replaced by more tech savvy jobs. More jobs sitting all day rather than standing and moving.
I remember reading a study years ago. For the life of me, I wouldn't be able to find it now, but the study mentioned that smoking damages DNA. I don't think that's hard to believe if someone was a chain smoker. Although, it was said in the study that this damaged DNA would affect grandchildren and nothing could be done about that. After all, "More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette."
If this is indeed possible then what about other hormone disrupting stuff that was told was good for us Deet? Asbestos? And more?
Again, so many factors.
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7,162 Posts
No. They're mostly the same where chronic disease is concerned. Cardiovascular disease, cancer, and diabetes. By comparison, a greater percentage of the population has them now. But yes, we can keep people with these diseases alive much longer these days. And that's the goal, not making people healthy. It's more profitable to keep people sick...longer.
No. There's only one definition. It's a condition that lasts a year or longer (often life long) that requires ongoing medical treatment and/or limits activities of daily living.
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7,162 Posts
Yep.
It's the main reason. It's also the one people can do something about right now. It's the easiest and most important factor for any of us to control.
Not pointing fingers but statistically it seemed like a switch was flipped by one generation.
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11,633 Posts
it used to last a year or longer then you were dead before it went a lot longer people with a chronic illness in 1930 may have lived to 40 not 80
when you start keeping people alive 20+ years with a chronic illness
in 1930 5% of the population was over 65 and we are looking at 21% of the population being over 65 today
no question it is more profitable to health care to keep people alive longer and with more diseases , no argument there I am just explaining part of the statistic when you have a 16% change in people over 65 your going to have a lot more chronic illness
there are also a lot of kids kept alive for a lifetime of chronic illness that would not have made it 70 years ago.
as for diabetes , you only get to abuse your pancreas so long before you don't proccess the sever excess of sugar well any more , and are declared type 2
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7,162 Posts
There's another big component to that.
In type 2 diabetes, or insulin resistance, the insulin is blocked from doing it's job due to a build up of tiny fat particles around the muscle cells. So...no matter how much insulin the pancreas puts in your blood, it can't open the glucose gates sufficiently enough. Therefore, blood sugar levels rise. Lower the level of fat in peoples' blood and the insulin resistance comes down.
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131 Posts
This seems like one of those threads that bring the denial folks out of the woodwork...
Nothing to see here folks...
Facts are facts... There's clearly something causing the obesity issue.
So easy to blame the fat people... not so easy to study on solutions...
I try to eat the organic munchies out of my garden... I stay thin 2 ways... first by the exercise needed to do the shovel work... and then the healthy diet from not eating that processed crap from town.
The impoverished areas rapidly become food deserts...
the grocery stores are all closing and everybody shops at the dollar store... try eating healthy on that substandard junk...
And people are required to grow turf in their yards... try eating that!
Maybe abolish HOAs and require edible landscaping everywhere possible?
Those fines against tobacco and oxycotin were a start... now? Go after the soda industry, hit the breakfast cereal people... white bread & cupcakes... and everybody else producing a product that can be shown to be addictive and negative nutrient value...
All those unhappy people carrying all that extra weight... probably could use a break from those bad "foods".
Nothing to see here folks...
Facts are facts... There's clearly something causing the obesity issue.
So easy to blame the fat people... not so easy to study on solutions...
I try to eat the organic munchies out of my garden... I stay thin 2 ways... first by the exercise needed to do the shovel work... and then the healthy diet from not eating that processed crap from town.
The impoverished areas rapidly become food deserts...
the grocery stores are all closing and everybody shops at the dollar store... try eating healthy on that substandard junk...
And people are required to grow turf in their yards... try eating that!
Maybe abolish HOAs and require edible landscaping everywhere possible?
Those fines against tobacco and oxycotin were a start... now? Go after the soda industry, hit the breakfast cereal people... white bread & cupcakes... and everybody else producing a product that can be shown to be addictive and negative nutrient value...
All those unhappy people carrying all that extra weight... probably could use a break from those bad "foods".
Instead of more rules, why not go back to teaching home econ. in school and tie in a course on nutrition?
Remember when schools used to teach how bad it was to smoke? Kids would go home and tell their folks not to smoke.
I think everyone on an EBT card needs to take a class in nutrition and cooking if they want a card.
Remember when schools used to teach how bad it was to smoke? Kids would go home and tell their folks not to smoke.
I think everyone on an EBT card needs to take a class in nutrition and cooking if they want a card.
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3,013 Posts
While I agree in theory, there's a major problem with that. The average SNAP benefit here (WV) is $214.00 per month... for a family of two. It's pretty much the same in most states. Kinda difficult to have a heathy diet on that no matter how many nutrition classes you take.
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7,162 Posts
SNAP is supposed to be supplemental not a grocery budget for a month. But I see what you're saying. Still, healthy food can actually be very cheap. Frozen fruits and veggies are cheap. Dry grains are cheap. For a family of two, $214 can actually go pretty far.
I think the answer is pretty simple. At least in large part. The reason why unhealthy junk is so cheap and healthy produce, local and otherwise, tends to be more expensive is because the junk is heavily subsidized. Instead of all the farming subsidies going to these few multibillion dollar agribusinesses for corn, soy, rice and wheat...which mostly goes toward the production of all the foods causing chronic illness, why not divert at least a large sum of that for growing healthy produce? Maybe support and incentivize small local farms in producing fruits and vegetables? If we are going to subsidize food, it should be for something healthier.
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131 Posts
Unfortunately true.
It's like the people drawing up those farm bills are deliberately aiming for an unhealthy population.
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233 Posts
I blame the crackdown on cocaine in particular. That and we made all the really effective diet pills illegal right around that time (because they were just speed.)
Then we rekajigger the way people think. They believe 12 servings of bread a day is good???
Then we rekajigger the way people think. They believe 12 servings of bread a day is good???
But it's OK as a social worker to walk into a home to see SNAP money spent on soda pop, chips and frozen pizza?
And visiting those that supplement their SNAP benefit with food boxes, you see bags of beans piled on the counter from multiple food boxes, you question it. The answer back is "I don't know how to cook them".
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10,443 Posts
Then we need higher minimum wage I guess so they can supplement the WIC and SNAP. Oh wait if they make more, they lose the food subsidies and still not able to afford healthy. Just cant win on low end unless you get lucky with that lottery ticket. Not everybody is white collar and yuppie and shopping at Whole Paycheck while rent multiplies multiple times. Some have to live on what they get, not pretend they have more money than they do.
But yea, blame it on Tricky Dicky and Earl Butz. Get big or get out agriculture. So processors get cheap starchy commodity grains for their "added value" processed junk foods and nobody makes a living farming commodities on 80A. Have to farm half a county. But yea produce and nuts are the foods that go unsubsidized and are the most healthy. Though with recent price increases, one wonders about lot of the supposedly subsidized foods. Grain and legumes arent all that "cheap" anymore. Pound split peas is $1.50. Not that long ago it was 30cents. But time flies when you are having fun. Did wages increase five fold while I wasnt looking. Apparently not. Another Rip Van Winkle moment.
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