Engines and EMP

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Unregistered-1427815803, Jan 18, 2004.

  1. This might sound a bit strange, but has anyone given thought to ways to keep engines running after EMP? Not just cars, but engines in tractors, generators, etc.

    It EMP should occur, all electronics will be fried.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Kirk

    Kirk Well-Known Member

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    EMP destroys electronics so older tractors, cars, and pickups without any computer control shouldn't have a problem. Of course the next problem might be getting fuel for them if the pumps are all out of order, but a creative looter should be able to overcome this with out to much difficulty.
    Kirk
     

  3. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    I think your referring too....Electro magnetic Pulse energy, are you not??? I don't don't necessarily agree with your Hypothesis that...."ALL" engines will be "fried". I can make a connection between the idea that the Power grid will Pickup a certain amount of the Pulse and then that will in turn be transmitted over the Grid into every electrical appliance that is plugged into the grid Distribution system. But, a diesel tractor sitting in a field with no physical connection to the grid would NOT be effected by an EM Pulse. It also depends on the epicenter of the energy pulse, the initial Quantity of energy present, the distance from the Event to the outlying areas , etc. Obviously, the amount of energy transfer is inversely proportional to the distance between the source and the receipent. The closer you get to the fire the Hotter it gets type of thing. Also, you could have an intense energy field concentrated in a small area geographically ....BUT....NOT have A 100% transfer of that energy into the Power grid system. Any given set of power lines is ONLY capable of carrying a maximum power load based upon the engineering design when constructed........fordy :eek: :) :confused:
     
  4. Does sound a bit strange but diesel engines (or at least the ones I own) use heat from compression not spark to detonate fuel. They should run fine during and after an electromagnetic pulse. Absolute worse case scenario, you would need to figure out a way to crank a high compression engine over without a starter. Grandpa used to tell me about the dangers of starting cars with hand cranks (like the 48 VW bug) but a tow would be the easiest and I am sure there are others. Just how do you figure someone or something is going to generate an electromagnetic pulse strong enough to fry all electronics in a car? Me thinks you have been reading too many sci fi novels or doom and gloom anti government pamphlets.
     
  5. Sorry. I should have clarified it a bit.

    All transistors, diodes, etc that are in ignition systems would be fried from EMP. Not to mention computer controlled fuel injection systems, etc.

    Even diesel tractors have alternators with diodes in them. If you can't recharge the battery with the alternator, you won't be starting a diesel for very long.

    EMP can become concentrated in masses of metal(car, tractor, etc).

    Granted, if we have an EMP problem, we have a lot of other problems to worry about as well. Such as fallout.

    Not that it will happen, but with North Korea and other places, it is possible.

    I welcome anyone's opinion on this thread.
     
  6. I just noticed a news story on Yahoo. Pakistan was investigating a number of its top scientists for helping spread nuclear technology.

    Sci Fi? Doom and Gloom?

    Well, I wish it was. My concerns are grounded in reality.
     
  7. Darren N.L.I

    Darren N.L.I Guest

    Diesels with mechanical injection systems as compared to modern diesels with electronically controlled injection systems should work fine. You could always build a huge Farraday cage and store anything with electronics inside including your car. Sometime in the 70's, I think, the Mississippi Highway Patrol pulled a guy over that on closer inspection; well, merited closer inspection. While lots of folks joke about wearing tin foil hats, this guy had literally wrapped his entire body in copper wire.

    After they checked him out, they released him. You have to wonder about things like that. Out of 300 or so million folks in this country you're bound to meet up with some that are .... interesting. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about EMPs. You might want to read up on the pole reversal thing though.
     
  8. Oh, I get it now, you are worried that a nuclear blast will generate an electromagnetic pulse and fry the electronics in your car.
    Let me assure you of two things. First, to my knowledge, nuclear explosions have not been shown to generate a pulse that will short out electrical systems (its a theory). Second, if a nuclear bomb went off close enough to short out your electrical system, the last thing you will need to worry about is weather or not your car will start!
    Nuclear technology is everywhere. Most areas have at least one nuclear plant and all of use/ have seen nuclear agents incorporated into illuminated dials of alarm clocks, coleman mantles and gun sites. A thermo-nuclear weapon is a complex and delicate thing. It is not something you can build in your garage (assuming that in this day and age you could assemble the necessary materials). A dirty bomb will not generate a EMP. We all are living in turbulent times but that is no reason to become scared of an unproven theory. Don’t get too wrapped up in things you cannot control. Best you can do is to live as well as you can today and plan for the best possible future. Don’t Panic!
     
  9. johnkl

    johnkl Well-Known Member

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    I'm not panicking but the way I understand it is a nuclear blast will generate a significant EMP---enough to scramble the brains of a computer or any other kind of digital device. Its also my understanding that China has developed a nuke specifically for its EMP yield. I don't remember where I heard that. It would wreak havoc because everything digital is vulnerable, including brainboxes for cars.
     
  10. That is clearly in error. A blast generates EMP that will fry most electronics.

    And the higher up in the atmosphere, the wider the EMP. If it took place miles above ground, it could blanket the whole country.

    EMP is like having things shorted out by lightening.
     
  11. RANDEL

    RANDEL Well-Known Member

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    <<Its also my understanding that China has developed a nuke specifically for its EMP yield. >>

    wow the chinese really know where to hit us! then we'd have to replace all our electronics. they could sell em to us.
     
  12. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    The russians are, more than likely , are the ONLY folks that Might have a Nuke of the EMP type, if it exists.
    In reality, we all have alot more to fear from a Mega Burst of radiation from the SUN than we do from a Nuke. If the Magnetic force field surrounding the Earth goes to 0 or decreases significantly, we loose the replusive\protective shield of that force and the power grid is subjected to the detrimential effects of extra large doses of radiation from the SUN. ...........fordy :) :eek: :worship:
     
  13. sionosis

    sionosis Member

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    Well might as well get my two cents in. While working for nasa we determined that such a pulse would indeed occur; but it is rather doubtful that a pulse could be generated by a single device in such a way to blanket the country.
    It should also be noted that the so called dirty bombs we have been warned about is a misnomer. They seem to think that what they are trying to assemble is nuclear material to be spread by a conventional explosion. This would indeed be lethal in the immediate area of detonation but there would be no pulse and little or no radiation spread except on pervailing winds and then limited. Vehicles with old tech (prior to 1978) should function. If you are truly afraid of this buy some extra parts and store them in a "tempest room" which should protect them and install after danger of additional attack is over
     
  14. How about from 200 miles up or so?
     
  15. sionosis

    sionosis Member

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    I believe that it is far more likely to suffer a emp as a result of a CME (coronal mass ejection) than from a nuclear blast even one from a height of 200 miles I haven't figured the effects of such a blast lately but several things factor in to the equation rather heavily such as terrain, shape of the charge, nuclear material involved, etc. There is also the question of hardening of electronics against such emps. Which is possible to do to a large degree
     
  16. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it also Possible that a major cataclymisic(sp) volcanic eruption that ejects a sufficient quantity of material into the upper atmosphere could ALSO duplicate the same effects as an EMP from a nuke????????? :eek: :)
     
  17. johnkl

    johnkl Well-Known Member

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    Thats a good point fordy about volcanic eruptions. I listened to a book on the eruption of krakatoa and compasses were effected several thousands of miles away from the event.
     
  18. Ken Scharabok

    Ken Scharabok In Remembrance

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    I believe Krakotoa happened in 1815 and 1816 was known as 'The Year of No Summer'. Enough ash and soot remained suspened in the atmosphere to where sunlight through it was reduced. In much of the northern half of the U.S. at least it still snowed into mid-summer and fall came early. Almost no crops were grown. Then a year with fresh produce supply was manageable. What would happen today with one year of no grain or corn produced?

    Ken S. in WC TN
     
  19. Well, I'd think we would be ruined. Sort of a nuclear winter?
     
  20. Zack

    Zack Well-Known Member

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    I suppose if this really keeps you up at night you could park your vehicles in an all metal building that was well grounded as for lightning rods. Essentially you would have a Faraday cage. As with lightning though it would not be guaranteed to work but would be a realistic option.
    As for fuel, if plants will still grow we can run gas and diesel engines with out any major problems. Guess you will have to switch to wood if you use propane to fuel something.