Emancipation Proclamation 150 years old tomorrow

Discussion in 'Countryside Families' started by Nevada, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Nevada

    Nevada Voice of Reason Supporter

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  2. Harry Chickpea

    Harry Chickpea Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, the slaves in the south were freed so they could rise up against their masters. Although much is made of it, it would be similar to Germany saying that Russian Jews were free to riot against the Czar.
     

  3. Miss Kay

    Miss Kay Well-Known Member

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    Don't you just love Barn!
     
  4. Lazaryss

    Lazaryss Well-Known Member

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    President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, as the nation approached its third year of bloody civil war. The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

    Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

    Taken from http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/
     
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  5. WV Farm girl

    WV Farm girl Well-Known Member

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    It changed the focus of the war from Preserving the Union to Freeing the slaves. Lots of Union people were not impressed. Reinforced what opponents of Lincoln had always said....He was an abolitionist.
     
  6. Sawmill Jim

    Sawmill Jim Well-Known Member

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    Was Abe the father of socialism in the US ??
     
  7. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    They won.
     
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  8. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    It was a good first step leading to the 13'th amendment that finally led to our Declaration of Independence meaning what it said. We're still working on it though, aren't we? It's amazing that, after 150 years, we've come only this far. I guess it takes time for ignorance to die, but die it does, slowly but surely.
     
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  9. bluetogreens

    bluetogreens Well-Known Member Supporter

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    really what it did was to change the war and the "purpose" of it. the north was having massive victories, but needed more able bodied fighters and less resistance in the deep south. Slaves that formed many units would not fight for the north and slaves made up portions of the souths armies, so Abe granstaded, threw some big words out and got more support from a group of peoples.

    The real progress came much later in time, but in the scheme of things in the last 60yrs we have gone from segregation to a black man in office-regardless of my distaste for the policies of Obama, his election represented part of america that I love and that strangely the democrats are taking away- and that is with enough work and effort on someones behalf they truly can be anything they want to be. So a parent regardless of color can tell there children now the same thing my parent where able to tell me, and that is dream big with hard word everything is possible and you can be anything you want to be when you grow up. Sadly 2-3 generations ago many parents could not say that truthfully to their children.
     
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  10. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    It might have meant that to some people, but to the slaves it meant freedom and what they hoped would be liberty. Of course, for most of them that took another 100 years.
     
  11. tinknal

    tinknal Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would you ask this question if you were a slave? You should be ashamed of yourself.

    This is simple. No matter what argument the south might have made over "states rights" the war was about slavery. The fact that arrogant southerners thought that they should have the right to own human beings shows that they did not deserve the rights that all of us had fought for. I'm sick of this argument and it's faulty reasoning.
     
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  12. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who says the war was over anything other than slavery is kidding themselves. Even the North tried that. No one wanted to say it, but that's what it was about. Of course it was. And, the Emancipation Proclamation finally put it into words! A great day in our history. So sad that it took a war of such viciousness. That never had to happen, and never should have happened.
     
  13. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and its a hundred and fifty years and four minutes old right now. :)
     
  14. InvalidID

    InvalidID Too Complicated For Cable

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    The war wasn't about slavery at first. If you read the real history of the civil war you'd see it was about taxes.

    The northern states produced machines the southern states needed, but at a higher cost than the Europeans could. It was cheaper to buy much of this stuff from Britain, and so the south did just that. The northerners got together and passed tariffs on much of this stuff so the south would have to buy from the north. This enraged southerners who already felt like they were getting arsed out by the north, and this eventually lead to war.

    (Readers digest version up there)
     
  15. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah, we've heard and read all the other excuses too. This stuff (i would really, really, really like to use that other word here) is better suited to GC along with the threads about the government killing the kids in CT. Happy New Year everyone!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2013
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  16. InvalidID

    InvalidID Too Complicated For Cable

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    Why only free slaves in the 'rebel' states if it was about slavery the whole time? Heck, ol' Abe's plan was to free em and ship em back to Africa for cryin out loud. He was no hero by a long shot.


    From 4th Lincoln/Douglas Debate, 1858

    I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.


    From Lincoln’s Published Response to Horace Greeley, 1862

    My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause.



    From 1st Lincoln/Douglas Debate, 1858

    I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects---certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man.



    I was born in New Jersey, a Yankee. I have nothing to apologize for in the civil war nor in the debate on slavery as my people came here in the early 1900's long after that fight was over. (If anyone alive today can be said to have guilt assigned to him for his ancestors actions)


    I am however a reader, and I do love history. Lincoln was no friend to the black man, he was no civil rights champion, and the civil war wasn't intended to be about slavery unless honest Abe was a liar.
     
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  17. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    Looks like your history is about as sharp as you chemistry. ;)
     
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  18. Bob Huntress

    Bob Huntress Well-Known Member

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    The remarks that it was another hundred years before there was liberty assumes that change has been consistantly improving and a constant rate. This is not the reality, however. You should read up on the growth of Wilmington, NC prior to the riots(massacre). By the turn of the century most areas blacks had about the same rights and prosperity as whites. After those politicans claiming to be progressive started getting elected, namely Wilson, and the movie Birth Of A Nation became an original block buster, those rights vanished most places, not only in the south. This was not the general mindset in most of the nation, other than the Confederate South during reconstruction, though.
     
  19. InvalidID

    InvalidID Too Complicated For Cable

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    But google fixes both problems, you don't think i had those quotes of ol' honest Abe's memorized do ya? :pound:
     
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  20. vicker

    vicker Well-Known Member

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    I've already addressed your Abe quote. It was kind if like FDR's police action in the Atlantic pre-declared war with Germany. I'm not going to have this discussion here. I'm not going to have it at all. Carry it down to GC and y'all can have a big back slapping party.