[bpmahagan]

Now that we are running the house on solar it seems to make sense to consider an electric vehicle. In our case, Walmart is about 8 miles away and Home Depot / Lowes is about 25 miles. For trips that don't require my truck to haul stuff, a car that wouldn't require gas, antifreeze or oil changes seems like it might be a good idea. Please feel free to comment on any of the results of my research below.

As much as it seems like this would be available, being able to charge the EV batteries from your home charge controller is not possible today. That means you will convert the DC from your solar panels and batteries to AC with your home inverter and the EV will then convert it back to DC to charge the car's batteries. Interestingly, at least in two cases that I've seen the electric motors that power an EV are AC so the electricity will go through an onboard inverter to power the motor(s). Now there's efficiency. There is a "DC Fast Charge" capability on many EVs but it's not something your home charge controller can handle (400 - 1000v).

What about heat and air conditioning? Where we live this is a requirement. A brief comment on one of the websites I was reading mentioned the impact of a heater on the range of an EV, something I hadn't thought about. After more research I found some tests had been done, by AAA and Car and Driver if memory serves. The impact ranged from 19 - 41% reduction in range. Have an EV with a claimed range of 100 miles on a fully charged battery, if it's cold outside and you chose to be comfortable while you drive and you may only get 59 miles before your battery is dead. Some EVs have moved away from resistance heating and are incorporating heat pumps. This, in theory, should decrease the power used and therefore get you closer to the claimed mileage. Air conditioning does not impact the miles you can drive as much as heat, but it does still reduce the distance you can travel between charges.

The Nissan Leaf, according to something I read, is using a heat pump but the improvement wasn't as much as the test driver expected. As an aside, when looking at replacement battery prices, the Leaf's batteries seem very expensive.

A radio show in DFW that covers all things automotive will help you select and buy a vehicle. I asked for their opinion on an EV and here are their reviews on the two they recommend.

2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium Review | CarProUSA
2021 VW ID.4 All-Electric SUV | CarProUSA

And here is a link to a Car and Driver review of the Tesla Model 3. There are links within the article to other EVs they have reviewed.

2023 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs

With a near-ideal blend of performance, driving range, and accessible pricing, the 2023 Tesla Model 3 is an electric vehicle that lives up to the hype.

www.caranddriver.com

That's all I have for now. The cars are expensive but with truly no fuel cost (as long as we have enough sun) perhaps it's a wise investment if the SHTF. Looking froward to comments.

Brian

 

[ET1 SS]

I drive a hybrid. It uses a heatpump for heating and cooling. We recharge it from our household solar power system.

As more people install recharging stations I hope to be able to recharge everywhere that we go.

 

[doc-]

EVs are niche vehicles at best.

We can end the argument right now for your particular case if you can get by with just your truck (ie- you don't really need a second vehicle.)--- Cost of new EV Mustang in the range of $30,000+. (Tesla 3 $42,000+)..Price of gas $3/gal and the truck gets 15mpg..You drive to Walmart 1/wk and HomeDepot 1/month and a little more- total 150 miles per month, using 10 gal of gas =$30 /m...You'd have to drive your EV with "free fuel" for 1000 months just to break even on the capital outlay, not counting the VERY expensive battery changes every 2-6 yrs.

By the time your EV has "paid for itself," your solar installation will have reached half its useful life expectancy and you'll need to be saving to shell out another $20,000+ to replace it...All done to save ~$150/m in gas & grid payments, in trade for the unreliability of solar power and an unpredictable driving range....

 

[ET1 SS]

EVs are niche vehicles at best.

We can end the argument right now for your particular case if you can get by with just your truck (ie- you don't really need a second vehicle.)--- Cost of new EV Mustang in the range of $30,000+. (Tesla 3 $42,000+)..Price of gas $3/gal and the truck gets 15mpg..You drive to Walmart 1/wk and HomeDepot 1/month and a little more- total 150 miles per month, using 10 gal of gas =$30 /m...You'd have to drive your EV with "free fuel" for 1000 months just to break even on the capital outlay, not counting the VERY expensive battery changes every 2-6 yrs.

By the time your EV has "paid for itself," your solar installation will have reached half its useful life expectancy and you'll need to be saving to shell out another $20,000+ to replace it...All done to save ~$150/m in gas & grid payments, in trade for the unreliability of solar power and an unpredictable driving range....

Why would anyone change the $2500 battery every 2-6 years? That is silly.

I have a neighbor whose farm has been on solar power since the 1980s. Who is feeding you lies about the life expectancy of solar?

Reliability. Dude your post is full of holes. The power grid in my area is unreliable. For the first 15 years that I lived here the power grid NEVER provided power for a single calendar month continuous. They are not capable of providing power for an entire month, they can not do it. They have not been able to do that one feat. We went to solar power because it is reliable.

 

[RJ2019]

Have fun with that. I have a hybrid, and hate it. I don't want a vehicle that you need a degree in rocket science or electrical engineering to understand. I actually bought a truck just so I could get rid of my stupid hybrid. EV's by their very nature become obsolete after maybe a dozen years at the most.

 

[doc-]

Re: "Lies"-- take your choice of several million articles on useful life of solar panels-- solar panel detrioration over tie - Bing

I'll concede a compromise on battery life-- useful life is determined by number of re-charge cycles, not a calendar....Faster charging means shorter life. Discharging them below ~50% also speeds deterioration, so the range may be 300 miles on one charge, but you're hurting the battery if you go more than 150 miles on one charge. Battery life is 100-200,000 miles, depending on how far you discharge it regularly and how fast you regularly recharge it.

My math in the other post was based on buying a second car vs not buying one....If you must have a 2nd car, then base the math on gasoline costs saved vs difference in price of EV vs conventional car--The EV equipped equivalently to an ICE getting 30mpg still costs $10-20,000 more--That'll still take 100-200,000 miles of driving to pay for itself.

But you don't have to believe me...Consult Dr. Festinger about your decision.

 

[GTX63]

That's all I have for now. The cars are expensive but with truly no fuel cost (as long as we have enough sun) perhaps it's a wise investment if the SHTF. Looking froward to comments.
Brian

I believe there is a place for EVs. Not everywhere and not for everyone, ever. My only other thought is on the above quote. If things truly go south and in a very bad way, an EV will not get you far enough. An EV would be considered an asset, by everyone who sees you.
I would have more faith in a UTV.

 

[oldasrocks]

It takes a 40 lb battery to equal the power in 6 ounces of gasoline. EV's do not decrease pollution but increase it. Solar panels, batteries and other hardware have a shelf life. Too many places in the country where solar panels will not work because of snowfall etc. 2nd vehicle for backup? that means more insurance and taxes.

 

[MichaelZ]

Seems that the hybrid vehicle might be best for your needs. It makes use of the wasted braking energy. And even though the hybrid battery does wear out, for your limited use, it would serve you for many years.

 

[bpmahagan]

A few more bits of information...

We are still finishing our house and at the same time maintaining a rent house, raising chickens and turkeys as well as expanding other areas of interest. Trust me, there are more trips to Home Depot than one a month. But, this isn't solely about economics. If the country stayed as it was today, or better yet, go back to the way it was in 2019, I wouldn't seriously consider an EV based on the economics.

In my mind, there are some indications the country is moving in a direction that calls for considering more that just economics. The liberal agenda of those in education has taught more and more of our young people to believe that socialism and even communism is better than capitalism. Those beliefs line up well with the democratic party today. And just to make sure the democrats can stay in power they have opened the borders and offer free everything to those that come across. And of course will offer the right to vote to all residents, whether citizens or not. If they can't get that through they'll just grant citizenship to all. Guess who they'll vote for.

On the subject of economics, how are we going to pay for all these free things the democrats are giving? We'll just print more money. Making the dollars you have worth less and less.

I don't believe all the things I've mentioned here are going to happen but I'll bet some of it does. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I think it will be better to have useful things than cash in the bank. Or under the mattress.

GTX63, I'm not sure what you mean by an EV won't get me far enough. I'm on 40 acres surrounded by the piney woods of East Texas. I have what I need to survive here, I'm not bugging out.

Brian

 

[bpmahagan]

Forgot to add this to my previous post. While I'm disappointed in the liberal bias of the BBC, there are some interesting points in this article.

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

 

[RJ2019]

Seems that the hybrid vehicle might be best for your needs. It makes use of the wasted braking energy. And even though the hybrid battery does wear out, for your limited use, it would serve you for many years.

Yes and no. Hybrids are better in that you don't have to wait hours for it to recharge (in a SHTF scenario, can you really afford to stand around all day waiting for your car to charge?) But they are still highly specialized pieces of machinery. There are electric components and sensors EVERYWHERE and often a failure in one system leads to a chain reaction rendering your car useless.

For instance, my hybrid car has had some air conditioner issues. Replaced the compressor, little bit better but still some problems. Unfortunately, some wit over in Japan decided that they would design the battery cooling system to use the air conditioning system (and it was 109 here yesterday) so that when the air conditioner doesnt work the battery doesn't get cooled. Hello, transmission problems! After dealing with this intermittent transmission stuff and air conditioning bs for a year, I just bought a truck. One that is older than my car, so I can understand how it works, and be able to diagnose/fix things myself. My car is 14 years old and that hybrid battery has gotta be on its way south anyway. In a SHTF scenario, where will you find or design all these specialized sensors and electronic components? Unless you are able to manufacture sensitive electronics, I will argue that a hybrid OR an EV are poor choices in SHTF scenario. In internal combustion vehicles, many of the parts can still be machined if it breaks, and fuel systems can be retrofitted to use different kinds of gas. In short, the technology is too specialized and experimental to serve us well in a bad situation.

 

[doc-]

A few more bits of information...

We are still finishing our house and at the same time maintaining a rent house, raising chickens and turkeys as well as expanding other areas of interest. Trust me, there are more trips to Home Depot than one a month. But, this isn't solely about economics. If the country stayed as it was today, or better yet, go back to the way it was in 2019, I wouldn't seriously consider an EV based on the economics.

In my mind, there are some indications the country is moving in a direction that calls for considering more that just economics. The liberal agenda of those in education has taught more and more of our young people to believe that socialism and even communism is better than capitalism. Those beliefs line up well with the democratic party today. And just to make sure the democrats can stay in power they have opened the borders and offer free everything to those that come across. And of course will offer the right to vote to all residents, whether citizens or not. If they can't get that through they'll just grant citizenship to all. Guess who they'll vote for.

On the subject of economics, how are we going to pay for all these free things the democrats are giving? We'll just print more money. Making the dollars you have worth less and less.

I don't believe all the things I've mentioned here are going to happen but I'll bet some of it does. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. I think it will be better to have useful things than cash in the bank. Or under the mattress.

GTX63, I'm not sure what you mean by an EV won't get me far enough. I'm on 40 acres surrounded by the piney woods of East Texas. I have what I need to survive here, I'm not bugging out.

Brian

I like your point of view, but--

There are three ways to deal with a SHTF situation-- If you are the biggest, strongest & best equipped, you can try to fight back, but there's gunna be more of them than you. This is probably an unsuccessful plan.

You can run away-- EV or ICE, how far can you go?..and you'll probably just run into more of them when you get there. Not a good option....BTW- Sure, you can recharge your EV with your solar cells, but where you gunna go in a SHTF situation and you're trying to escape (leaving your solar installation behind)?

That leaves ability to hide as the best survival plan. No need for a car.

The best fit niche for the EV is use as a commercial, urban delivery truck-- vehicle used only 8 hrs or so a day (plenty of time to re-charge), not many miles driven but frequent stops where idling of an ICE would be inefficient, or as a suburban/urban commuter car where a commuter is stuck in rush hour traffic for an hour or two every day often just sitting there in traffic with engine running but going nowhere.

 

[Rodeo's Bud]

My folks have two Priuses, Priusi?

Anyway, one is 11 years old. Same brakes, same batteries, no maintenence, but oil and tires. 180,000 miles.

The dealer said in the 10 or 12 years he's been selling them, they have only replaced 2 batteries.

Anecdotal, but still.

 

[frogmammy]

Well, if you want to see which cars last, go to Cuba and take a look around.

Mon

 

[Rodeo's Bud]

Most of those have crappy Russian drive trains in them now.

 

[doc-]

Replacing EV Batteries: Your Costs Will Vary | PluginCars.com
Battery capacity starts showing deterioration around 40,000 miles so your Range Anxiety gets progressively worse....Cost to replace Nissan bat pak $9-18,000; Tesla 3 $16,000. It Costs Nearly $16,000 to Replace a Tesla Model 3 Battery Pack (thedrive.com)

 

[GTX63]

My folks have two Priuses, Priusi?

Anyway, one is 11 years old. Same brakes, same batteries, no maintenence, but oil and tires. 180,000 miles.

The dealer said in the 10 or 12 years he's been selling them, they have only replaced 2 batteries.

Anecdotal, but still.

That sounds like great longevity on the batteries, but I don't see much interest in the private sector on a Prius that age with original batteries. That sort of leaves the options as drive it until the breaker falls out or trade it in on another vehicle and roll the cost rather than eat it.

 

[muleskinner2]

Using an electric vehicle might sound like a good idea, until you figure in all of the factors. For instance the demand for electricity to charge the batteries will increase the overall demand, so they will have to build more power plants. The demand for batteries will increase, so they will have to mine more of the ingredients to make the batteries. The feeling of "I am doing something to save the world", will be through the roof. The actual savings of natural resources, not so much.

Anyone who wants to use less of our natural resources, should plan their shopping trips better. And use less gas or diesel, this would actually help.

 

[GTX63]

I don't think California can keep the lights on for their citizen's homes now; do they think they can handle the load of every one of them owning an electric car in 10 years?