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Okay, we just went out and messed with the fence. Long story short, hubby disconnected everything from the charger, including fence ground rods, and zapped himself directly off the hot terminal, and barely got a shock. When we test this charger with the tester that I have, it has bright lights all the way up to 7000V, and a nice loud POP sound. This charger is a plug-in model, so it's got power to it.

The charger is made by Gallagher, it's the Wrangler model. Box says "1 Joule of stored low impedance power", charger says on the front: "110-120V AC, 60 Hz, 0.008A"

I've left a message for the US office for Gallagher, but of course they're not in until monday.

It appears that both the charger and my tester are malfunctioning. Here's pictures of my setup (sorry, I didn't get one of the charger itself).

Any suggestions would be gratefully accepted! We'll probably do the bucket of water on each ground rod just for good measure, but it seems that the problem lies with the charger, right?

THANK YOU!!

Tracey Mouse

TESTER:


GROUND RODS #1-#3:






CUTOFF SWITCH:


CORRAL FENCE:
 

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Be powerful. No other option exists.
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1. Not enough joules for goats. :Bawling: You need 8 joules, according to previous posts by experienced goat owners on this board.

2. I have *never* been successful with strands of hot wire. The goats' hair is not conductive enough for them to be zapped through their coat. They'll only get zapped on their noses. So, if they scoot through the fence quickly, they don't get zapped at all. They quickly learn how to get through, and the potential for a little zap isn't a deterent. We went to *seven* wires, and it wouldn't keep in a pygmy buck!

3. I think you really need to go to electric net.
http://www.kencove.com/ShopDetail.php?recordID=NPC
 

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Retired Coastie
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Tracy, sorry to give advice so late, in fact I didn't read your original thead. I'm not even sure how big an area your fencing. However I see nothing wrong with you charger, 7000volts is plenty to get the job done. The first problem I see is that your ground rods need to be beat into the ground farther and in a outdoor moist location. DH getting a mild shock was due to his shoes acting as an insulator and your dry barn floor is not an ideal conductor. Pull the ground rods back out of the ground and re-locate and then re-test. If you need advice on how to get the rods out of the ground just ask....John
 

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I can't see in the photos for sure, but is your ground rod inside the bldg.?? My guess is poor ground. Run ground wire outside and drive grd. rod under bldg. roof drain so it remains wet. I would all so put at least two ground rods spaced 10 feet apart. Could be a bad charger, but you need more ground in any case. Also read up on electric fence. Most fences for goats or sheep run a ground wire in between hot wires in the fence. Google electric fence, there are some very good sites from universities and fence companies showing typical fences for different livestock. The Tractor Supply Catalog has a good explanation on how to build an electric fence. I use a 6 joule charger, it works. If the shock doesn't about floor you, it won't keep in goats.

Good luck,

Bob
 

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Rose is right the more joules the better, but the highest voltage output is equally important. I ran a 2 joule system for two years (six miles of wire and never an escape. I recently upgraded to a 9 joule system and of course still no escapees, plus higher joules burns weeds. I continue to tell people to buy the best charger that you can afford; this is one piece of equipment not to skimp on. Here is some valuable information from the ParMak corporation builder of electric fence chargers....Keep in touch.

5. Q. How does the joule relate to the performance of an electric fence charger?

A. It doesn't. It would take a ten page letter to explain all of the factors which make an electric shock effective. The joule does not measure the effectiveness of electric shock. The joule is a mathematical equation of Voltage x Amps x Time. The longer the "on-time" of the pulse, the higher the joule rating will be and the longer the "on-time" the less safe the fencer is to use and the less effective.

The joule is not the correct way to measure the performance of any electric fence charger because the joule does not consider peak current value or "on-time" which are key factors in the effectiveness of a fencer, therefore, the joule cannot define true shock effectiveness or fencers safety.

What controls livestock is voltage and amperage. You must have voltage in order to force electricity through the conductor (fence wire) as well as vegetation touching the fence, etc., and you must have current in order for the livestock to feel that shock. Joules or heat has nothing to do with it.

The most effective fence charger will have the highest power (voltage and amps) possible in the shortest on-time possible, thereby allowing the fence charger to develop a sharp spike which is far more effective in controlling livestock and at the same time is safe to use.

6. Q. If the joule should not be used then why do some manufacturers use the joule rating?

A. Some manufacturers use the joule rating as a marketing ploy to sell fencers. By using the joule rating, they create as much confusion as possible in an attempt to "cloud the issue" and cover up the true facts about what makes a fencer effective
 

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I agree with moving your ground wires post outside, also drive them all the way down to about 4 inches out to connect the post together.Looks like part of your ground wires are connect with regular fence wire, try using the insulation under ground wire on all posts together.From the pictures it looks like your wires are to far apart,the ones i have start at around 6 inches from the ground and go up around 8 to10 inches apart running 4 strands.
 

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Stableboy III
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Sounds like a grounding rod issue. If you put the probe into the ground and touch the positive terminal on the charger, do you get the same reading as if you put the tester on the hot and ground terminals of the charger? It sounds as if the charger is working fine. Focus on the grounding.

I would try and put the grounding rods outside the barn as was suggested.
 

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I would agree that the ground isn't working because the soil is dry. The first thing I would do is to move the ground outside and then saturate the area around the ground rod before testing.
 

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Green Woman
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I pour water on my grounding rods as well. AND I have two grounds. One ponied off the other...

In addition, I "train" my goats with electric fence on the INSIDE of cattle panels (chain link or woven would work as well or even pallets) in a small enclosure. Like 20' x 20' depending on how many goats you have.

What you want is to train them that they can't run through. If you have a solid BACKfence behind the electric? It trains them they can't just run through quickly and not get zapped. This works for horses and cattle too.

With "new" goats, I even put greens or a pan of feed across the electric to encourage them to touch the fence and feel the zap. One newbie goat was so traumatized (until her brain worked it out) that she stood in the CENTER of the enclosure crying softly to herself after getting zapped several times. Wet the ground around the fence as well. IF YOU AREN'T CRUEL TO BEGIN WITH YOU WILL NEVER CONTAIN THEM. BABIES TRAINED WILL RESPECT FENCES. Goats will walk stiles, push each other into the fence to see if it's "live," etc. Determined jumpers/runners? Put a small chain dangling from their necks - that REALLY connects to them on their necks where it REALLY hurts. Or even a jumping fork. I've not used the fork? But understand it's use. The tail of the Y needs to be long enough to touch/drag the ground... Good luck!
 

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Oh, and it looks like your grounding rod (besides being inside) :nono: is near your milking stand? You really don't want it where you have to touch it. I have at times gotten stray current from my big charger fed back through when I touched the ground...

Please put it somewhere that you don't have to contact it...
 

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I think you have three big problems. One, you need a better charger.

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(From The Grassland Supply Webpage)

"Product Category: ENERGIZERS
Unfortunately, there is NOT a uniform standard to compare and evaluate energizers of various manufacturers. Some claims of manufacturers are misleading and confusing.
At GSO we encourage you to look at the OUTPUT joules of an energizer. Energizers are rated with Output & Stored joules. Make sure you compare apples to apples and not one units output with anothers stored joules.
We feel that under average fence conditions 1 output joule will power approximately 4 miles of fence wire. If you anticipate extremely heavy fence loads then cut that again in half to 2 miles per joule.
So for example, you plan to have 12 miles of electified fence wire.
12 divided by 4 = 3. You will need an energizer of at least 3 joules. If you plan to add more fence to it later, or expect heavy fence loads you should probably buy in the 5 output joule range. Additionally, in this example, if you are going to be fencing goats or sheep in which you will have multiple wires and the lower ones will be down in the grass, it would not be out of line to buy in the 8 joule range of energizer.
New Zealanders have ofter commented that we Americans usually "overbuild" the fence, then "underpower" it.
At GSO we have noticed that many of our customers are upgrading and going to larger energizers so that they can maintain good voltage even under heavy vegitation loads.
If you math out the cost difference of a $200 energizer compared to a $500 energizer on a 12 mile fence, it will be well under a penny a foot.

A NOTE ABOUT BRANDS: GALLAGHER, SPEEDRITE & STAFIX ARE ALL NEW ZEALAND MADE AND CARRY A 2 YEAR WARRANTY. They are high quality energizers - made to last. TAYLOR FENCE CHARGERS ARE MADE IN THE USA AND HAVE A 1 YEAR WARRANTY WITH A 4 YR OPTION.
All of our energizers are selected based on their performance for agricultural purposes and their ability to maintain good voltage for the sized systems they are made for. We have been pleased with the Taylor Fence Chargers, so if you need to save a few dollars without compromising quality, check them out."
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Two, you need a better grounding system. The best way is to run the ground rods around the outside edge of your building, under the run-off from the roof. And if it is *very* dry(read dust-dry), you may need to water your ground rods. Three, your strands are way to far apart.
The strands at the bottom are so far apart that it doesn't even look like an obstacle to the goats. The top wire is way above their heads(or so it looks in the picture). When I first train goats to electric, I run three strands very close together at the bottom, then a couple more spaced evenly a little higher up. Nothing is above head level. Then I shock the goats by holding their noses to the wire a couple times each. You will get shocked using this method, but its minimalized if you wear full foot covering with rubber soles. And if you don't train them, you are wasting your time.
Once your herd is trained to electric fence, you can be much more lax about it than you can be now. Like this:





That keeps my whole herd in no problems whatsoever. Keeps my dogs in as well. :)
 

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Emily, you left out one BIG BIG BIG problem.

NEVER put your fencer or any of your high voltage wires going to the fencer or to ground in your buildings. They used to have an express warning on the manuals telling you never to do that -- which I ignored -- until the day lightning blew my fencer right off the wall in the barn, blew it to smithereens all over the place. Looked like a bomb went off inside it. All it would have had to do was contact some hay with one of those sparks and bye-bye barn.

You can hang it outside under an eave. I used to just take a 5-gallon pail and cut V's into the top to bring the wires out of, put the top back on, and plug it in like that. Weight the top with a rock.

mousebandit, hubby shorted himself across BOTH the hot and ground electrodes, right? If he did not grab them both, he cannot expect to get a shock. If he did grab both and got not much, the charger is suspect.

Emily, I'm look at your pix and shaking my head in wonder. I tried and tried and TRIED with goats, and could not get them stopped by electric. The same fence would stop my cows dead in their tracks, but the goats would get around it somehow, every time. One like your last pic? They'd just hop over it.
 

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Jim S. said:
Emily, you left out one BIG BIG BIG problem.

NEVER put your fencer or any of your high voltage wires going to the fencer or to ground in your buildings. They used to have an express warning on the manuals telling you never to do that -- which I ignored -- until the day lightning blew my fencer right off the wall in the barn, blew it to smithereens all over the place. Looked like a bomb went off inside it. All it would have had to do was contact some hay with one of those sparks and bye-bye barn.
Emily, I'm look at your pix and shaking my head in wonder. I tried and tried and TRIED with goats, and could not get them stopped by electric. The same fence would stop my cows dead in their tracks, but the goats would get around it somehow, every time. One like your last pic? They'd just hop over it.
Very true, Jim. I do keep mine inside the backroom of the milkbarn, but it is totally surrounded by concrete, so no problems there. Be aware of the fire hazard, folks.

What can I say, Jim. My goats are just little :angel: 's....... ;)
I will say that the fence that would keep our cattle(and BIG bull) in for years, wasn't even close to the charger I had to get for my goats. :shrug:
Jumpers don't jump the fence because they are to scared to get that close I guess. And yes, I have two goats that would jump even a full-size cattle panel....but will not jump the electric. If I hadn't held their noses to it first to show them it bit?? I have no doubt they would have sailed right over it and once they found out they could......its very hard to break them and I'm sure I'd have to put up higher fence.
I just took 28 dairy doelings who had been kept inside cattle panel fencing their entire life and put them on the other side of that electric wire. I held their noses to it first and a few of them went through it(yelling all the way :D ) more than once. Every time they went through they were scared to go back through and to rub it in further, I held their noses to it again before putting them back in.
Now, a week later, I am feeding my big does on this side of that electric fence and though they stand there and holler at me, the doelings DO NOT come through that fence. So, hey, somethings working. :shrug:
 

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I found out that no matter how hot the fence is and how many ground rods you use,a goat will go through.I have found out that you need to run a ground wire between the hot wires and I tie mine to the fence rods for another ground .My ground wire is also attached to the ground side of the charger,I had a new billy that would go through my fence untill I wired my fence the way I just described,now he stays in.There is 4 inches between my hot and ground wires,this will hit the goats around the bridge of the nose as they start through,not on the horns or back on their hair around the shoulders.This works for me but it maynot work for everyone.
 
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