Drooling

Discussion in 'Goats' started by steff bugielski, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. steff bugielski

    steff bugielski Well-Known Member

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    I have a doe who is drooling excessivly. She seems to have some paralysis on one side of her face. She is eating a bit less because she keeps her tongue out trying to lick that side of her face. I tried carefully to see if she had any thing between her teeth and cheek but nothing. No swelling either. Is this a sign of something bad or maybe she just got butted in the face and pinched a nerve. Her face is not swollen just not working right.
    Steff
     
  2. oberhaslikid

    oberhaslikid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Listeriosis. This is some info I was given from a previous owner on my expirence.

    I believe what your vet was talking about is a *bacterial* disease called listeriosis. It is also called "circling disease". It usually starts with the animal showing weakness on one side. It will then only be able to walk in circles, and eventually becomes totally paralyzed and dies. Sometimes it can be saved with massive doses of antibiotics.
    I hate to second guess your vet, but while Hanns could have this, it sounds like it could also be polioencephalomalacia. Unlike polio in people, it is caused by a vitamin deficiency, specifically thiamine. To recover, a goat MUST get thiamine ASAP. When given IV thiamine soon after onset of symptoms, the recovery can be startlingly rapid. If pure thiamine is unavailable, a B-complex injectable (available over-the-counter at farm supply stores) is better than nothing. If THAT is also not readily available, you can try thiamine tablets or capsules for people, if the goat can swallow. If he does start to recover, be sure to give him probiotics to get the rumen flora back in order.

    Because of the similarity of symptoms and causes between the two diseases, an animal is usually treated with both antibiotics and thiamine.While it is unlikely, anytime you have an animal showing neurological symptoms, you need to consider the possibility of rabies and take proper precautions to avoid direct contact with saliva and other bodily fluids. Below is a list of related information from various web sites:


    Listeriosis - caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, found in soil, water, plant litter, silage and goat's digestive tract. Brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes and advanced stages of pregnancy.

    Symptoms - Depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck, facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling, abortions.

    Treatment - Administration of Procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days.

    Polioencephalomalcia (Goat Polio) - a Thiamine (Vitamin B 1) deficiency. From improper feeding, particularly feeding too much grain and too little roughage. Symptoms - Excitability, "stargazing", uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving, drunkenness, circling, diarrhea, muscle tremor, head against wall, and apparent blindness. As it progresses, convulsions and high fever may occur, and if untreated, the animal generally dies within 24-72 hours.

    Treatment - Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Dosage is related to body weight: Daily treatment for 5 days and then weekly as required.

    Goat Polio (Polioencephalomalacia) and Listeriosis (Listeria monocytogenes) are metabolic diseases with similar symptoms that require very different treatments. The goat producer must be alert to the subtle differences in order to know how to treat the sick animal. In most cases, both of these diseases are seen in goats raised under intensive management conditions. Improper feeding, particularly feeding too much grain and too little roughage, is a significant factor in both diseases. Producers pushing the animal to gain weight too fast can induce this often fatal disease in their goats. Sudden changes in feed can also cause the onset of this disease.

    Polioencephalomalacia (also known as Cerebrocortical Necrosis) is thiamine (Vitamin B 1) deficiency. Any change in the rumen's environment that suppresses normal flora activity can lead to decreased thiamine production. Too much grain decreases the pH of the rumen, predisposing the animal to Goat Polio. Thiamine must be present in order for glucose to be metabolized. If thiamine is either not present or exists in an altered form (thiaminase), then brain cells die and severe neurological symptoms appear.

    Causes of thiamine deficiency include feeding moldy hay or grain, overdosing with amprollium (CoRid) when treating for coccodiosis, feeding molasses-based grains (horse & mule feeds), ingesting some species of ferns, sudden changes in diet, the dietary stress of weaning, and reactions to de-wormers Thiabendazole and Levamisole. Each of these can interfere with Vitamin B1 production. Even the usage of antibiotics destroys flora in the rumen and can lead to thiamine deficiency. This is why it is so important to repopulate the gut with live bacteria after using antibiotics or scour medications. Goat Polio is generally seen most often in weanlings and young adults , in contrast to Listeriosis, which most frequently affects adult goats. An increase in Goat Polio occurs in North America during winter, when the availability of forage and quality hay is low and producers start feeding increased amounts of grain.

    Symptoms of Polioencephalomalacia are excitability, "stargazing," uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving (ataxia), circling, diarrhea, muscle tremors, and apparent blindness. Initial symptoms can look like Entertoxemia (overeating disease). There is a component of "overeating" involved in that the rumen flora has been compromised. As the disease progresses, convulsions and high fever occur, and if untreated, the goat generally dies within 24-72 hours.

    Diagnosis is available via laboratory tests, but the producer does not have the luxury of the time that such tests take. Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Thiamine is a veterinary prescription but very inexpensive. Producers should always keep thiamine on hand. Dosage is related to body weight; 10 mg/kg should be given every six hours for at least 24 hours. (One kilogram equals 2.2 pounds.) Initially, IV dosage is best, but SQ or IM can be used. Some producers even give thiamine orally after the initial treatment. If thiamine is unavailable but the producer has multiple B vitamins on hand, make sure the dosage is based upon the amount of thiamine in the multiple B vitamins. The key to overcoming Goat Polio is early diagnosis and treatment. Complete recovery is possible under such circumstances.

    Summary: To try to avoid this disease, decrease grain, increase roughage, avoid moldy hay and grain, and don't feed molasses-based (textured) feeds.It must be said, however, that complete avoidance of Goat Polio is impossible at this time. After doing everything "right," producers will still have a goat come down with it occasionally.

    Listeriosis is caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, which is found in soil, water, plant litter, silage, and even in the goat's digestive tract. The bacteria is known to multiply well in cold temperatures. There are two forms of Listeriosis: one form results in abortions, while the other causes encephalitis. Both types are seldom seen simultaneously in the same herd. The organism can be shed in the milk of both carrier and sick goats. Its zoonotic potential (ability to be transmitted to humans) is of growing concern. Like Goat Polio, Listeriosis is most often seen in intensive management situations.

    Unlike Goat Polio, Listeriosis is more common in adult animals than in kids. It is entirely possible to buy infected animals and introduce this disease into a previously uninfected herd, because some goats are carriers who never display any symptoms. Listeriosis is brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes, and advanced stages of pregnancy. The encephalitic form is most common, causing inflammation of the nerves in the goat's brain stem.

    Symptoms include depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck (similar to symptoms of tetanus), facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling. Diarrhea is presently only in the strain of Listeriosis which causes abortions and pregnancy toxemia. Listeriosis can be mistaken for rabies. Immediate treatment is critical. There is no time to waste with Listeriosis. Recovery is more "iffy" than with Goat Polio. The exact manner in which both Listeriosis and Goat Polio affect the goat is not well understood at this time. Treatment involves administration of high doses of procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days. Forty-thousand IU per kg of body weight of procaine penicillin is needed to cross the blood brain barrier and put sufficient amounts of the antibiotic into the tissue of the goat's central nervous system. Remember that one kilogram (kg) equals 2.2 pounds.

    Prevention: Feed your goats properly. No silage (unless the producer really knows how to use it, and definitely no silage in the hotter and/or wetter climates). No moldy feed or hay. Clean pens. No sudden changes in types of feed. Lots of free-choice quality roughage, particularly in the latter stages of pregnancy. And cut dramatically back on grain!
     

  3. shereen

    shereen Well-Known Member

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    i had the same exact thing happen this year. no other symptoms, just drooling and cud spilling out of my la manchas mouth. my vet was out of town so i ended up calling dr. mary smith at cornell. we narrowed it down to listeria or an inner ear infection. i knew it wasn't listeria, and lucky for us it was a inner ear infection. turns out she has an infection and i never noticed her ear draining, discharge or smell because my great pyr had been 'cleaning' her ears for days.
    after treatment it took almost a month for her face to get back to normal.
    i hope this helps.
    good luck and keep us posted.
    shereen
     
  4. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    Treat her immediatly. Use a goat vet that knows how to really treat goats. My livestock vet is NOT a goat vet in any way. He assumes everything is pneumonia, which is what he thought this was. I had a wether that one day, had a wet chin. I assumed he just got a drink out of the water bucket. Next day, he had TONS of dool coming out of his mouth. Called and visited vet, and they diagnosed him with pneumonia (yeah right, but I didn't know better back then). Sent us home with strong antibiotics. Later that day he could only walk in left hand circles and his mouth was paralized. He couldn't eat. That night i had to put him in the shed, walking on his right side to force him in a strait line. Then my dad went back to vet for the stronger antibiotics. I had him pick up some eyedrops as well, because now Cameron, the wether, couldn't close his eyes and he was laying on straw. I fashined a mask for him so it would protect his eyes at least a little from laying open on the straw, and put in eyedrops. I had to leave him out there that night so I could go to school the next day. Gave him his final shot of strong antibiotics, and left him. Next day, he was dead. I was heartbroken, and didn't go to school that day. But this story shows how quick he died, and to find a good goat vet. I still don't know exactly WHAT killed my wether, but hopefully his series of symptoms helps you to watch for more in your goat.
     
  5. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What's her temp?

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think listeriosis comes with an elevated temp.

    Last summer I had a little wether (maybe 30 pounds) with a temp of 106. I gave him 5 cc of Pen G on day one, 1 cc for 2 more days. On day 4 he looked much better. On day 5 his head tilted to the left and he couldn't close his mouth or swallow. On the morning of day 6 I put him down because he was curled up with his head on his side moaning.

    I believe if I had kept him on antibiotics for the full 5 days he would have made it. I know better now.

    If it is listeriosis you need to treat NOW.
     
  6. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    By the time you see palsy in the face with listerosis, the brain swelling is advanced, you would have seen her staggering and circling also. I bet this is either an abscessed tooth, an abscess in her cud cheek or an inner ear infection.

    And sure she can also have had a stroke, but her eyelid and ear would also be involved not just her cheek.

    Time for a vet though, it's pretty tough to do a thorough mouth exam with out a speculum and drugs to calm her down enough to insert it and inspect it.

    At least go out and massage her ears really well, see if you can dislodge the wax and smell in the ear...hopefully it will be that simple. vicki
     
  7. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine had a doe with your symptoms and she thought listeriosis too, but the vet diagnosed inner ear infection.
     
  8. steff bugielski

    steff bugielski Well-Known Member

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    I am almost positive, after reading your responses that she must have an ear infection. She is showing no other signs and it has been three days now. As a matter of fact last week I thought her ear tag had been ripped out. I went out to clse them up at night and when I pet her I noticed some crustyness(?) on her cheek. But it was dark and in the morning it was gone.
    So how and with what do I treat an ear infection.
    Steff