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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dolly, one of our Spanish goats (9 months old), got injured during a storm last week. I came home from work one night and found her standing in the rain. She wouldn't walk, even for food. Her hair was matted and looked like she had been laying in the mud. Not sure what happened but 3 of her legs had abrasions, mainly along the inside of the legs. Vet said it looked like Dolly had got caught in something (fencing?) and gave us some anitbiotics for her. We separated Dolly from other animals and have kept her in barn for most of the week. She seems to slowly be getting better but is still limping.

But our dog, Alaska, is acting very weird about it. He is Pyrenees/Anatolian cross, about 9 months old. Alaska immediately goes to her when he gets the opportunity and tries to lick her legs. Then he opens his mouth and wraps it around her legs and even tries to grab her shoulders and the back of her neck with his teeth. He doesn't seem to be chewing but I am sure it can't feel too good for Dolly. He is very deliberate about it with no signs of either aggression or playfulness. He also straddles her, with her head (and horns) under his belly. At one point Alaska picked up one of Dolly's legs, the one she is limping on, in his mouth and started walking away with it, forcing Dolly to hobble along beside him. We don't know what to think about Alaska's behavior and are not letting them be together without supervision.

Anyone have comments about Alaska's behavior to injured goat?
 

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He knows that something is wrong and that's his way of dealing with it.
 

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Mentally she's part of his pack and he's trying to help. However, a dog is still a dog and not smart enough to do it without irritating or hurting the goat. I'd separate them and give her some time to heal.
 

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His natural instincts are kicking in. He recognizes the doe is injured and it's my opinion that, given the chance, he will kill her. Laying on top of the doe is his way of saying "she's mine!" So is the mouthing and biting of the neck. If he accepts his role of subordinate to you, he shouldn't challenge you for the doe, but I bet if another dog came around he would become aggressive or more possessive of the doe and could hurt her trying to keep her from the other dog.

You should keep him away from her. I also think you should keep close watch on him and how he views the rest of your herd. At 9 months, he's still a teenager and hasn't sorted everything out yet. Make sure he knows the goats belong to YOU and he should leave them alone.
 

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I want to hear more about this situation. Yes that dog is still a teenager.
 

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We use to breed (for fun and so mom earned her own money for a personal sence of pride) gaurd dogs.

My brother was burned. So, mom had me get all the dog spayed. When my brother came home from the hospital (this was a major burn he was in the hopital for over 2 years) the alpha dog would not leave db side 3 times a day kevin was unwraped and wound were worked on and rebandage. (over 70 percent burns so it took all day it seemed in the beginning) mom was at her wits ends right away. And she call his dr. because Princess would be licking kev. If I was not at school I had to restrain the dog to allow mom to work on kev. If I was at school the dog was put outside but the dog scratched the door --almost like attacking the door to get to my brother. Kev loved the dog mom thought that it was best to put down the dog. But Kevins doctor informed mom that somthing in the dogs tongue was really good and that the dog was doing most likey more good for the open wounds than the meds that the tongue was gentle way of removing the dead cells and tissue that would rot and keep the cycle of infections going.

After that mom let the dog with kev, So it was a new routine after awhile. strip the telfa, remove the ace, Princess worked first on Kevin. Mom bath kevin then he was rewrapped. Kevin did very well. In the hospital they had experimented with leeches on him cause the leeches would clean him up and in doing so make the bleeding stop. kevin look like raw meat that is how bad his wounds were.

After that when ever we got a cut we would look for the dog to like the area I still do it to this day. I know that this sounds gross but nature has away. Honestly mom thought that the dog went wild when the bandages came off because he looked like bloody meat. She thought the dog was trying to nibble at kev. But it really was just like how she would treat a newborn pup ----that type of strong licking to open the sack and clean up the pup. Honestly it looked bad to watch at first but kevin would be laughing and say that it tickeled. Go figure. the dog never was so demanding to lick small wounds so I guess Nature inspires a dog to do the job as needed.
 

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Kathy
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Its a enzyme in the dogs salavia that is what the vet was talking about. Dogs lick their wounds and they heal but cats their tongues are rough and it wont heal like a dog.
I personally would keep the dog away from the goat till she heals. He is still young and he knows she is part of the pack but if it gets bad the dog could possible kill it with kindness. And with his age he is still playful and could hurt her worse. I would keep them separate.
 

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It was not a vet the dr. that approved and encouraged my mother was a very well know burn restoration dr. (he's dead now) Dr. defliece (spelling) a former dr. for the Buffalo Sabers (he was a plactice surgen and hockey is a rough sport).

We, were told to monitor the dog for roughness but with kev laughing it seemed like even thought it seemed rough and at times violent that it was safe. So, you do have a valid point because kev could express what what going on but another pet would not be able to. Had we not been able to communicate with kev we would have thought his squimering around was not over the tickeling but pain. Chaty on the ball is that with a weak small animal the dog could harm yet with allowing it to be done under human suppervision it just might be for the good.
 

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As long as he isnt trying to chew or eat her with supervision it might be good for her in the long run and help heal faster.
 

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This is one of those times when it would be great to observe the puppy while he's interacting with Dolly. I don't have personal experience with Pyrenees/Anatolian dogs. I've trained German Shepherds, Rotties, Dobes, Pit Bulls, Bouvier's and other strong working/herding breeds. I evaluated and trained dogs for Schutzhund.

When we evaluated the pups, we were looking for strong personalities that would be dominate over their situation. Dogs that would lie on top of the toys, mouth them and generally "own" their toys were the ones we wanted. These same dogs when given the chance would destroy the toys buy "killing" them. They mouth, lick, chew, carry, and shake violently to "kill" it.

Those pups/dogs would willingly give the toys to the humans, because they respected our dominance over them, but left alone, they destroyed toys.

What does Alaska do when you tell him to leave the goat alone? Does he respect you and leave? Does he challenge you and you have to touch him to get him to leave?

At any point in the life of your LGD, is it necessary for him to put his mouth or paws on or lay on a goat? I don't know the answer to this question. It's an honest question. I'm assuming the answer is no. If that isn't something he'll need to learn how to do, then my opinion is that he should be taught to leave the goat alone, no matter what.

The behavior you described would make me very cautious of the dogs intentions.
 

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BlackWillow, I've been with my SO at many dog training classes with many different breeds. I'm not a trainer, but I am a learner. I observed that she taught the dogs' owners much more than what was necessary to teach the dogs.

I have a FB G.Pyr and I am simply astounded at the intellegence of these noble animals. They truly "think" through a situation and consider the options. Like Edmonds, I don't understand Alaska's actions, but if he is anything like my LGD Bear, I'd trust him with Dolly. G. Pyr are completely different than other breeds.

There are some good G.Pyr books and here's a site I really enjoy.
http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library.htm#behavior
Paul
 

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My concern would be his interest in mouthing, straddling her, and trying to walk off with her leg.. I wonder if he realizes that she's injured and thinks of her as a risk to the safety of the herd.. But that is strictly a theory.. I am not a behavior specialist.. But I do think he is trying to do the right thing.. He just doesn't know what the right thing is.. I would say make it very clear that he is not to bother her and keep her seperated when you're not around.. Yes, the licking could help her healing.. But with the other things he's doing, he might do more harm than good.. Especially if he's stressing her more..
 

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Edmonds I have the same concerns...last spring my anatolian began picking on the only Nubian. He was almost 2 at the time. He had lacerated a front leg behind the knee. If I looked out the window and growled NO he would leave it.
But I caught him a few times after that with her leg in his mouth. The dog got put in a pen next to the goats. If he needs to get in there he will.
Just last week we decided to let him back in with the goats. The next morning hubby caught him mouthing her and excersizing dominance. Dog backed off when he got yelled at but is back in his own large pen until we can get him a shock collar.

A friend from Soviet Union has told stories of letting dogs lick their wounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Alaska would stop bothering the injured goat when told to leave it, but he would soon go back and try again. While we were there to supervise, we would let him interact with goat until it looked like he was getting too aggressive and then we would seperate them. When we weren't there to supervise, we have been keeping Dolly in a pen and putting the other goats in with her at night.

As Dolly's legs healed and she became able to run and avoid Alaska's "help", Alaska started leaving her alone. Today we left Dolly out with all the other animals for the first time without supervision. Things seem to be getting back to normal.

I still don't understand exactly what Alaska was trying to do, and I doubt if he does either. Was he trying to protect her and care for her? Was he trying to seperate her from the rest of the herd? Would he of killed her? I may never know for sure. He is still a puppy so hopefully his intentions will appear more clear next time we have an injured animal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
BlackWillowFarm brings up a good point. Who does Alaska think the goats belong to? He knows we do whatever we want with the goats (and him too). But when we are not around, I suspect that the goats are his. And is this not what you want with an LGD?
 

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This is a very interesting thread for me, in light of what I saw and lived thur with our dog Princess. Princess was highly trained she was a human gaurd dog, she was of such a level that she became a breeder. Her pups were presoled before breeding and all to the same place. 3 at a time would be shipped to Chicogo. They were to trained to be Police dogs and Gaurd dogs. One of the pups went to Sweden I know that much and Kenndedy Airport.

Princess would take control of a siduation if not handled. Normally, just giving her a command would do it but with Kevin, telling her to leave the room worked but if another family member did not stay with the dog durring the wound redressing the dog would NOT stop scratching the door ---she did major damage to the dog that stopped her. Leaving her in the same room durring the re bandaging of Kevin simple ended up with having to put a leach on her (she never needed a leash even going to the vet with strange animals) She truly became a so stubburn about this which is why mom made plans to put the dog down --her son came first.

Once we stopped interfering with what she intended to do she was calm and back to her normal self --she just became part of the theapy. I will say that Kevin's wounds did heal very well and the doctors were more than happy with how he was healing.

I am looking at the siduation with new eyes. Princess Owned us. She was responcable for us. She was trained to proctect us. She died at age 21 of old age. She also cared for an raised an orphaned kitten ---She nursed the kitten---She was a great dog she took over a litter of pups from a Dutches. Dutches had a bad labor and only 3 pup were born but she was in distress she did not clean her pups as usual Princess had gotten up from her welping bed and stayed with Dutches she took over for Dutches.

We took duches to the vet she need a cearsian she had a dead pup stuck in her.
There was Princess on her welping bed with 6 pups one age 3 newborn pups and the one kitten. When Dutches did come home she rested alone on her bed and watched. when she was better she joined them all in the one welping bed.

Maybe some animals are more mothering and protective. Let us know how Alaska is doing. Is Alaska male or female? Do watch the dog with the goats. Look for a long time Kevin was NOT left alone with princess. It was scary because it did not look right and it made no sences --it looked like an actack. In time we got used to it but Kevin was so weak he would not be able to stop a kitten from harming him let alone a full grown dog. That dog during this time (per my mom because we talked on the phone over this thread) Mom said that Princess totally stopped patroling the yard and only focased on Kevin. She remembers that no strangers could get near Kevin as the dog would shift position and block the event. I do remember a few times that a doctor came to the house to check on Kevin but I do not remember that happening --Mom does. She said that Dr. B came by often (must have been when I was at schooL) and that Princess had to be chained to allow the doctor to work on kevin. And that The doctor felt that the dog senced that Kevin needed more potection and that he was fine ---as long as the dog was chained.
 

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My mom had an almost incurable ecxema on one of her legs. The doctors had about given up on ever curing it. Her Kerry Blue Terrier started licking it and she would let him lick to his hearts content once she found out that his mouth was not "dirty". Within 3 months the ecxema was gone and has never come back - Docs thought it was amazing.
 
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