Dog abuse - what would you do??

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by ellebeaux, May 6, 2005.

  1. ellebeaux

    ellebeaux Well-Known Member

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    Okay, this is the news from my neighborhood this week.

    I live with my mother in a community of 1/4 acre wooded lots. Our neighbor, Deborah, has 2 kids, Hunter, 6, and Savannah, 9. Around the corner, a woman, Amy, lives with her two Pomeranians. Last week Amy got a new 3 year old Pom named Zooey. Zooey is all of 3 pounds and the cutest darn thing you ever saw.

    Tuesday night I was out walking my dog and Deborah drove up in her car and yelled 'can you do CPR on a dog?'. I said yes, and Amy got out of the car holding a limp Zooey. The dog was blue in the gums and the tongue and had no pulse but I tried for a few minutes and felt around to see if there were any broken bones or something in her throat but there was really nothing I could do. Amy had taken the dog to the vet earlier that day and the dog had a clean bill of health.

    Amy had come home from work to find only two dogs in her yard. She was going from neighbor to neighbor when Hunter and Savannah came out. They led her to the woods behind the house where (some time earlier) they had put Zooey on a tree stump. That's when they came and got me.

    Now, I am really suspicious of these kids. The boy just isn't right in the head. Apparently, they had gone over to Amy's yard and played with the dog earlier. They said she had been walking funny. Then they went in and did their homework. They said that when they went back to Amy's yard that Zooey was on her side and just lifting up her head a little. So they took her out of the yard into the woods because they didn't want Amy to come home and find her dog that way. ????

    So we are all upset. Amy calls the breeder to tell her what happenned. The breeder's furious.

    At 7:00 am, Weds, the breeder calls Amy and demands a necropsy. Her reputation is on the line and she doesn't want people to think that she's selling unhealthy animals. She's still legal owner of the dog as Amy bought the dog as a pet ($500) instead of a breeder ($800).

    They meet at the vet. The vet does the necropsy and determines that the dog died of trauma and internal bleeding. The breeder wants to press charges. Everyone is really upset. So Amy makes a complaint with the police and writes a letter to Deborah asking for reimbursement of the $500.

    That's where it stands today.

    This is not the first time this kid has done something creepy. Amy has repeatedly told them to stay out of her (gated and fenced) yard. The dogs hate the kids and throw fits whenever they see them and try to bite them or run away. Now I don't know if they purposely hurt the dog. I actually doubt it. BUt they are out of control. When Hunter was 3 he used to come in my house to take my dog. He has no concept of right or wrong. I don't think this is normal behavior but I'm not sure what we, as neighbors, can do?? I just worry if he's like this when he's 6, what's he going to be doing when he's 14????

    thanks for listening!

    Beaux
     
  2. Hip_Shot_Hanna

    Hip_Shot_Hanna Well-Known Member

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    I have raised and shown Pomeranians.. currently I own one neutered male.

    I NEVER leave him out in the yard while I am gone. Poms are far too easy to just pick up and walk off with, and as this story points out, very vulnerable to even young children.

    However, there's really no proof that they children hurt the dog. It sounds likely, given the circumstances. The dog, being so tiny, could have been injured in other ways as well.

    I'm certain the owner of the little tiny Pom is heartsick. I personally feel distressed just by the story. The breeder is most likely appalled that the dogs weren't secured where no one could get to them while the new owner was gone from the home. Frankly, a three pound Pom is too small to breed anyway.

    About your neighbor's children.. eeeeek! If he's not hurt anything before, he could very easily have hurt this little dog merely by running and falling on her. It's THAT easy with the tiny dogs. I'd hate to decide he willfully and intentionally harmed the dog, even if he isn't "right" in other ways. Having said that - if he IS hurting animals, I certainly think you are right to be cautious around him etc. That's a very scary thing.
     

  3. duke3522

    duke3522 Well-Known Member

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    This is a police matter for sure. If a were the one with the dogs everytime these kids came in the yard I would call the police. No reason to let those disturbed kids torture those dogs.
     
  4. Corgitails

    Corgitails Well-Known Member

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    I'll be honest, the breeder's well within her rights, and if I suspected someone had deliberately injured a dog I placed- whether one I bred or a rescue- I'd be very upset if the new owner wouldn't press charges. I'd also just have to deal and get over it though, because I don't do co-ownerships, just a contract. Poor Amy and poor Zooey. At the very least, they are responsible for moving an injured dog after they'd played with her and she started to have a problem. Why were they playing with a dog in someone else's yard anyway? Their mother should certainly be responsible for the cost of replacing Zooey- and Amy should put a lock on her gate so the children can't mess with the other dogs.
     
  5. Reillybug

    Reillybug Active Member

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    This can't be taken too seriously. Violence toward animals has long been recognized as a predictor of future violent conduct. There is a clear and direct link between animal abuse and all types of family violence. It is well documented that nearly all serial killers and mass murderes abused/killed animals before harming people; some beginning animal abuse as young as 3 years old. The FBI teaches law enforcement that there is a proven connection between violence towards animals and violence toward humans. Violence toward animals is one of the criteria used to define sociopathic behavior. For some really frightening statistics, check out www.pet-abuse.com. As someone who works in animal rescue, I can't stress enough that this is serious and law enforcement, animal control/abuse specialists, and mental health workers should be involved with this situation. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. It's too late for the poor dog, but maybe it's not for the kids.
     
  6. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

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    I think I'd INSIST on quizzing these children seperately about what happened to the pup. A parent would certainly be present, and I would "assume" they didn't intend to hurt the dog, but if they did... they were in a neighbor's yard, without permission, and I would probably insist on some kind of compensation from the parents.

    As dog owners we often assume that our fences and gates will be respected, and they are not. Even if they can't get into the yard, if those kids are bent on teasing the dogs they'll do it from the other side of the fence. So I'd have to say that any neighborhood dog's days of hanging out in the back yard are probably over.

    One of mine would have bitten the kid, and then I'D have been liable for keeping a "vicious dog."

    And people wonder why I don't like out of control kids...
     
  7. ellebeaux

    ellebeaux Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, you guys,

    One of my co-workers said I was overreacting because I am so upset. But I am so suspicious of this boy, he scares me which ****es me off that I'm scared of a six year old! They just kept changing their story. It's like they keep trying out things to say until they say something that their mother wants to hear and then that becomes the truth.

    In the past they have brought me baby birds that they've found so I know they know that if an animal is hurt they should go find an adult. Which is why I'm so suspicious that they took the body out of the yard.

    I don't have kids so I don't really know what is 'normal' except from my own childhood. And when I was a kid, we had tons of kids of all ages playing together all the time. Even then, you knew who was right in the head and who was a crybaby, etc.!

    We did get the name of the local policeman who deals with social service issues but we haven't called him yet. I guess we will this weekend.
     
  8. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would pursue it to the fullest extent that you can. Whether the kids intentionally hurt the dog or not, and whether or not the 6yo boy has mental/emotional problems, at the very least there is a problem with the fact that the mother is letting these kids run around the neighborhood unsupervised, and that they kids have not been taught to respect boundaries. Sounds like the boy, at least, is headed for trouble. And what kind of parent lets their 3yo roam around the neighborhood, going into other people's homes uninvited? What an idiot! What if one of the neighbors happened to be a child molestor? Or left a loaded gun out where a kid could find it? I definitely think some kind of intervention is in order.

    If it turns out that the kids did not intentionally hurt the dog, I believe that the parents should at least be financially liable, and possibly criminally- if the dog was removed from the yard by the kids, it was stolen, plain and simple. And if it turns out that they did hurt the dog intentionally, well, better to find out now, although in that case the kid(s) is/are probably already established sociopath(s) and there may not be much that can be done to help them. But, at least you'd know.

    If I lived in your neighborhood I believe that I would lock all doors and gates to the house and yard to keep these kids out.

    This really tweaks me- I had a neighbor in Fl whose adult son moved in with him, bringing his wife and 2 kids. The mother is a real piece of work- I used to hear her screaming at the kids all day long- swearing at them and threatening to kick their !@@es- who talks to a child like that? Anyway, she has had a couple more kids since they have been in the neighborhood- why, I can't even imagine. The oldest is a boy, who I had to take home a couple of times when I found him and another, younger boy playing on my porch when I drove in from out of town trips. I asked both sets of parents to keep their kids off my property when I was not there. A year or so later the older boy appeared on my property with a pellet gun and I watched him stalking and shooting at my chickens. I took the gun away, sent the kid home. A week later the father showed up asking about the gun. I reluctantly returned it to him after he assured me that the kid would not come back without his parents, and that he would not be allowed to use his gun unsupervised. Well, I have since moved, rented out my house, and during a visit home last week my tenant told me that she has twice caught the same boy inside her barn when no one has been home. She has told him he cannot be there unless someone is at home, but he doesn't pay any attention. I guess the kid is now around 10yo. I feel sorry for him, but at the same time I have no doubt that he is headed for big trouble, and it won't be long. The really sad thing is that the kid already has a bad reputation, and whenever some minor mischief occurs he is the one who is automatically blamed. Some parents ought to be taken out and horsewhipped till they get some sense.
     
  9. COUNTRY WISHES

    COUNTRY WISHES Well-Known Member

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    When he's 14 he'll probably burn down someone's home. What is the mother doing all day, that these small children are left to roam the neighborhood? Sounds quite similar to that situation in GA where those little kids drown after being returned to the mother after they where found wandering far from home earlier that day.

    The police need to be contacted and this woman needs to pay for the poor animal. The boy is probably too young to be charged criminally, most jurisdictions can't charge a child under 7, but it will bring him to the attention of the authorities and maybe bring Family Services into the picture to monitor the mother. Where is the father? Does he have any influence on the children?

    You and your friend should mark your properties no tresspassing it will make it easier to pursue charges should this continue. Those little dogs should not be left out unmonitored anymore than the little kids should be. They could easily be stolen or preyed on by man or beast. She might consider mounting a surveilance camera and a device that will alert her of movement until her property for when the dogs are outside and she is home. Then she can see if the little terror is bothering her other animals and catch him in the act and on tape.
     
  10. Jenn

    Jenn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Call the child abuse hotline for your area and tell them the story. If one of the children purposely did this to a dog the other child is actually in some danger from the other, and parents are neglectful. Also if they purposely hurt the dog maybe they have been abused.
     
  11. Maura

    Maura Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'd definitely call social services. If nothing else, it will start a paper trail.
     
  12. pamda

    pamda Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where are the parents of these kids? ANd why are the kids not with them? The kids are pretty small to be being labled as not right etc.. without wondering where the heck the mom and dad are and what goes on in the family. I would be so worried and would call the parents first and ask why no one is watching them. And then I would call the athourities if this doesn't seem to help.
    I have a pom, a terrier mix and their pup. The pom is not a toy sized dog he weighs about 14 lbs.. The terrier over 20 and the kid weighs 12 or so. I would never leave them out alone. If I leave to do something they go in the garage and play with their toys or if it's warm out they go in the bib dog run and I padlock the door. PAM
     
  13. OldYellersGhost

    OldYellersGhost Well-Known Member

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    A little Jeffrey Dahmer in the making.
     
  14. Queen Bee

    Queen Bee Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Any child who abuses an animal of any kind has many problems!!! First, problem is his parents! Where are they when this child is going into others fences and homes???

    Question: How fast do you think it would take his parents to be at a lawyers office if a dog bit him or hurt him.??????. Call the police and the Humane Soc. NOW>>> Debbie
     
  15. Pony

    Pony Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah, I agree: This whole thing weirds me out. And it's true: One of the questions we do for a psych eval of troubled children is whether a kid has a history of abusing animals. It is a predictor of much worse to come if not dealt with early on. (And even then, no guarantees...) :no:

    If your gut is telling you to avoid this child, I'd go with that. Just because he's a six-year-old doesn't mean you don't have an innate sense that something is wrong. Make your boundaries clear, and stick with them.

    Just had a run-in with a neighbor's kid who had no qualms whatsoever about shooting toward DH and me with his water pistol as we walked by his house. When I told him that he should not point guns at other people, he said, "Watch me!" and continued to shoot. His GM was right there, sitting in a chair.

    I stopped dead in my tracks and loudly said, "That is extremely rude and you need to stop it immediately." He started to say something, but then his GM finally told him to stop. But I'll bet if I hadn't insisted on it, he'd have kept it up.
    :no:

    And people ask, "Where are we going? Why are we in this handbasket?"
    :bash:

    Pony!