Doe drinking milk

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Meg Z, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Meg Z

    Meg Z winding down

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    Okay, my two first freshener Alpines both had twins this week. I put them on the stand this morning to do a little practicing while they ate breakfast. (First time for them, and my hands are out of practice!) I'll be letting the kids stay on them, and just milking mornings. They both stood beatifully!

    Last year, I gave the excess milk to the poultry. The ducks especially liked it. So, I poured this mornings milk into a pan, and set it out for the ducks. One of the does claimed it, instead! She drank every bit of it, probably a half gallon of milk! Then she went to where I had set my milking pail, stuck her head through the gate to reach it, knocked off the lid, and licked it clean!

    She is not self-sucking, or trying to nurse her sister, but I've never had a full grown doe be interested in milk before! Is it just a personality quirk, or an indication that's she's missing something in her diet?

    Meg
     
  2. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    i heard from lot of people that they feed surplus milk to the goats. i would make sure they are all cae negative. or pasteurize the milk before feeding to the animals.
     

  3. Carrie C

    Carrie C Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've seen goats go nuts for goats milk. I never ever let my grown does drink their own milk or any other does milk. It can lead to CAE if the milk is positive, self suckling, and regression to suckling other does. I actually had one of my does bring another doe into milk just by constantly sucking on a teat! What a shock that was!
    It might be that she is missing something in her diet. It might be that she's just a little quirky and likes milk. Either way, I'd discourage it.
    ~Carrie C.
     
  4. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I had a heavy milker that liked milk....I let her have a pint a day...but she never self suckled....
     
  5. Sherpadoo

    Sherpadoo Well-Known Member

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    Our Petunia and now all of her freshened daughters do the same thing. It's a good way to get calcium back into their systems, LOL! I'm just glad we don't have any self-suckers, too!
     
  6. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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    I have one doe who self-sucked as a first freshener. Thank goodness she out grew that! The same doe will chug the entire bucket of milk if you aren't carefull. None of the others will do that, not even the kids. The does have both tested CAE neg., so I don't have to worry that she will pick up anything from drinking the fresh milk. I just figured she was looking to replenish her calcium and fluids quickly.
     
  7. Blue Oak Ranch

    Blue Oak Ranch Well-Known Member

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    Just because a doe tests negative this year....doesn't mean she will stay that way. CAE has a long seroconversion, like human AIDS. (In fact, much of what we know of AIDS comes from studying CAE!)

    CAE can take many, many years to seroconvert - and that previously negative doe will then test positive. 13 years is considered the cutoff - so if your doe tests negative for 13 years, she really is free of the virus.

    Same thing for your herd - if you keep a completely closed herd, and every goat tests negative for 13 years, your herd is truly CAE free.

    This long seroconversion is the reason why people who have a CAE-prevention program for raising kids feed them pasteurized milk and never let anybody have raw milk irrespective of age.

    Cheers!

    Katherine
     
  8. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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    Some folks follow a more "natural approach" to caring for their dairy goats and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Katherine, don't push your narrow minded belief that every goat is going to get CAE unless you snatch it from its mother before she even realizes the kid was born. CAE preventative measures ARE appropriate IF a doe is in fact positive, and you are trying to continue the bloodlines you have without culling infected animals.
    If you have goats from a herd that tested CAE negative, or uses CAE prevention, you breed to only CAE negative bucks, and your does have tested CAE negative there should not be a problem with allowing kids to nurse or a doe to occasionally get a sip of raw milk. To insist that a herd is not really virus free unless you have tested them every year for thirteen years, never using/adding new goats, and only practising CAE prevention is like testing your blood every year for AIDS despite the fact that you and your partner are strictly monogamous. Overkill.
     
  9. Blue Oak Ranch

    Blue Oak Ranch Well-Known Member

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    Goodness, don't overreact. Look, I'm not being argumentative, or even narrow minded. It's reality - the virus isn't going to make an exception for you, even if you ask really, really nicely.

    I see a lot of misunderstanding about how CAE is transmitted....I wouldn't want a person new to goats to think that one test is all it takes, or only transmitted when they're babies. Way back when, CAE was called the "show goat" disease, because milk was often pooled at shows and fed to babies. I know people who have had goats catch CAE at a show, when somebody gave somebody else's goat milk "because they liked it."

    I really don't have a problem with dam raising. It really is the best way for the babies - when we interfere with nature, we are usually only try to catch up. Bottle raising on pasteurized is a pain in the neck and has its drawbacks. But, where would you buy your CAE-free goats if somebody didn't?

    It's about managed risk. For some herds, the risk of CAE is low - for others, high. If your partner was a former needle sharer, or a hemophiliac that had a blood transfusion before testing donated blood was common - you might want to think about testing yourself. Many people don't know the past history of their goats - like auctions, etc.

    I've found that very, very few really do CAE prevention. So, if only 10% of goat breeders do, where does that leave the other 90%? It'd be a mighty powerful thing if all goat breeders raised on CAE prevention for just one year. In just a few years, the disease would be gone.

    It's not the process that's the enemy - it's the disease. I don't pasteurize because I disagree with dam raising.

    Cheers to you and your goats!

    Katherine
     
  10. Meg Z

    Meg Z winding down

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    Didn't mean to start a debate!

    The twins, Tish and Truly came from a CAE tested herd. The Boer buck they were bred to was not tested, but I know the herd he came from, (my dad's herd) and they have never had signs of the disease (or CL, for that matter). Plus, this is a homestead, not a breeding facility, so my kids are dam raised. We drink our milk raw. I pasturize for guests. I think that if they drink each others milk, it really won't matter. They have never been separated in their lives, and chances are if one of them has something, they both do, anyway.

    If I was breeding to offer breeding stock, I would probably practice all the current methods of bottle raising kids, etc. But I'm breeding simply to get milk. The kids are Boer crosses, because we, or someone else, are going to eat them. They won't be used for breeding, except for the occasional doeling who might make another homestead milker. Since we got our first ever doeling this year, we'll see where she goes! (I'm not kidding...our first doeling! We always get boys!)

    So, relax! :duel:
    Please!
    Meg
     
  11. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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    After seeing Katherine's last post here, I felt one last reply was in order.
    Katherine, you say ,"Where would you get CAE-free goats if somebody didn't"(raise kids artificially, taken from their dams at birth, with bottles/buckets and pastuerized milk). A statement like that suggests that ALL goats that are not raised in such a manner have CAE. That is FALSE.
    I agree there is a lot of misunderstanding in the "goat world" about how CAE is transmitted. Instead of telling people they have to raise their kids artificially if they are to have a CAE-free herd, wouldn't it be better to offer the accurate information rather than try and scare folks into following your chosen method of kid raising.
    Also, I agree with your statement that it is about mamnaged risk. Some herds have a high risk, some have virtually no risk. If you have goats from an unknown source, that is obviously risky. You compare the risk to having a partner with possible AIDS exposure, obviously that carries a high risk factor , and common sense would say "get tested". No arguement there. I am just sticking up for the folks here with healthy herds, that breed to healthy animals, that don't purchase questionable animals and toss them in with the rest willy-nilly.
    Why keep infected does in the herd that have the potential to spread the virus for years to come by breeding infected animals and HOPING that you will be on hand to catch the birth and remove the kids before possible exposure. Buy your animals from a herd that has no signs of the virus that have been previously tested, do not buy anonymous animals from auction, have the test done for peace of mind.
    Also, I do not have any faith in folks who say the raise with CAE preventative measures. I have witnessed breeders who claim such practises pour milk from a couple freshly milked does into a bucket(gang) feeder for kids. No pastuerizing, and not even filtered. These were later advertised for sale as CAE prevention raised kids. Talk about a false sense of security.
    I would never advise anyone to let a doe drink milk from another farm's goats. In Meg Z's case it was milk from her healthy does on her farm. If a doe drinks her own milk, she not going to get anything she doesn't already have.
    To end, shows are always high risk for disease. It is absolutely bad news to pool everybody's milk and feed it, unpastuerized, to all the kids. Folks know better than that these days, and should be supplying their own milk to their own kids.
    Congradulations on your first doe kid, Meg!!!
     
  12. Mortgage-Hill

    Mortgage-Hill Active Member

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    to each it's own,, i have does that like milk and will give them thier own milk back but not from others unless it is pasterized,, as for CAE = i prevent raise,, but i show and add new animals and think it is great that people spend the money to have thier herds tested and strive to be CAE free, but for me i don't see how anyone that shows, sells and buys can ever say they are CAE free. CAE is something that we all deal with and we all have different beliefs on it, but i have seen more animals that are not feed than ones with CAE.
    LaNetta Batts